Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
#505      
OrangeKrush1981
PasadenaIllini said:
Alabama wouldn't waste their time hosting Riley if they didn't have a way of welcoming him into their squad.
Click to expand...
Yes.

But the word "welcoming" should be understood to refer to the staff and most definitely to the fans (us all). In the locker room? I would hope so but I know it most often won't go that way. Naivete is a heady brew :)
 
#507      
grue2
Tuition/fees/room/board are only part of it. There used to be NCAA restrictions on who could eat the team meals, work with the nutritionist, etc.. Walk-ons were not eligible. This was part of the big stink at NWU when Collins tried to move a player to a non-sports scholarship. They player objected saying: "They are not equivalent." I have no idea if this has changed in the last 5 years.
 
#508      
OrangeKrush1981
I wish so, but I very much doubt that 10+ mpg is at play even without Riley.

For some reason, we struggle to accept the fact that coaches are not trusting by nature (I know that 'cause I know it) and that coaches are da*n good at (sooner or later) realizing which 8 guys are the ones that will maximize wins. That always makes me want to say "but .." and yet stats seem to support this very strongly: if your squad is composed of the best 5 (or 7) guys, play them all the time. You will win more that way.

And yet then come from the stands or internet sites choruses of "guys get tired" and "guys suffer injuries" and "grades" and "law enforcement (yuck, I had to say it)" and ... and all of that is unimpeachably true. Winning with 6 or 7 guys (5 starters and a sixth man or a big and a backup PG who makes plays ..), over the course of a long, physically-brutal season is not likely.

But first (1): unlikely things happen, every year, everywhere. Meaning the best 6-8 man squad survives and wins it all. But most of those compact squads fare defeated in the Elite 8 or perhaps Final 4.

And second (2) : for those glorious teams where "next man up" over and over allows the team to run all the way to a championship? That is the most beautiful thing in all of sports. Be clear though, that this is as unlikely as (1), above, and yet something every fan who loves their program would kill for. Or at least sacrifice the proverbial left nut. Ugh.

We have very few examples of teams where, across the Winter weeks of basketball, nine or ten players contribute in ways that matter, week in and week out. That ninth or tenth man will in many instances contribute in a vital way to a team's success during the season but those guys are the very ones that are now most likely to portal out ASAP. There is no blame, no shame, no guilt, and no lack of love. It is what it is.
 
#509      
NCIllini10
whatahack said:
No one in Alabama can...
Click to expand...
This Is True Seth Meyers GIF by Late Night with Seth Meyers
 
#510      
altgeld88
Tevo said:
Can someone explain why we are all so convinced Fletch is so good? I have no reason to doubt that he is, but he is up there with Bill Brasky as far as legends go, and I'm not sure what the empirical evidence is. We don't seem to avoid injuries any better than anyone else. We don't seem to have guys who simply overpower our opponents (except Terrance, and I think he has been that way for a while). Plenty of other kids cut baby fat and add muscle.

Are there rankings for S&C coaches? Is there data people use to evaluate success or skill?
Click to expand...
TL; DR: We have no idea. S&C programs appear to waste incredible amounts of time and resources and leave untold amounts of athlete performance on the table. These guys should be lifting heavy, which will enable them to couple their genetically-gifted neuromuscular efficiency (explosiveness) with immense force production, armor them against injury, and realize their physical potential. It won't happen anytime soon. Then they should go practice basketball. Skip the BOSU balls.

******************

I'll post what will certainly be an unpopular response (lol, who am I kidding... I'm gonna get dogpiled): we have no reason to believe he's a star in absolute terms though he may well be relative to other S&C coaches simply because the bar is set so low. I'll note in advance that I've never seen his training plan, and have only seen the social media snippets of guys in the weight room that the DIA publicizes. It seems clear, however, that a lot of performance is being left on the table, and our guys could benefit by being much stronger.

Any D-1 athlete is a genetic freak residing at the extreme end of the distribution of neuromuscular efficiency. Someone has a 35-inch vertical jump (or a 48-inch one if he's Darrell Griffith or MJ) because he's crazy efficient at recruiting motor neurons to contract muscles. It's not something that can be trained except at a very small margin (adding perhaps a couple %.) Bring these guys in at 18 and you can literally do little more than feed them and they will grow, get bigger by the time they're 22, and look like gods throughout.

D-1 players are on the court partly because they're incredibly explosive, a.k.a. "powerful." (In extremis: TSJ.) That power is a function of the force they can apply over a distance in a unit of time. "Time" is the explosiveness variable and (e.g., the SVJ) isn't amenable to training. But you can train the force component: lift heavy weights. Anything less is a suboptimal approach to using the limited time available for training. SVJ, agility, etc... can't be trained for meaningful gain. Strength certainly can, for years on end.

I may be wrong about what Adam is doing with the guys; however, from the social media I see, it's not lifting heavy weights. It's lifting fairly light weights, balancing on BOSU balls while asymmetrically loaded with dumbbells, and other suboptimal exercises.

I'm unaware of a single basketball program in which the S&C coach trains players meaningfully for strength. Everyone on our team should be at the very least squatting 500 and deadlifting 600. Probably much more. (Kofi probably should have been pulling upwards of 800.) The development of that kind of force production combined with innate neuromuscular efficiency would maximize their physical potential. It would also make them a great deal more difficult to push around on the court and bullet proof their joints (esp. knees) from injury. It would make them stronger, more powerful, more resilient athletes.

(Let's dismiss the strawman here that this will make them into fat, sluggish, mediocre linemen. No, it won't. Or, horrors, "musclebound.")

The problem is that head coaches aren't informed consumers of S&C programs, and so an S&C coach who wants to keep his job will never risk training his athletes to lift properly (and, frankly, few if any S&C coaches appear to understand how to lift properly.) Mark Rippetoe of Starting Strength fame has written at great length about this topic for many, many years. (This article from 2016 for example. Yeah, it's long.) The barrier to entry here is understanding the mechanics of safe, efficient lifting, learning to coach it, and teaching lifters how to manage psychologically when the load gets really heavy. It's an acquired skill that takes time and intelligence. So instead we get high-volume sets at light weight, relatively light "squatlifting" with a trap bar, and "heavy squats will injure your knees!" Yeah, they will: if you do them incorrectly. If you do them correctly, which is fairly easy to learn, they'll write you an insurance policy against torn ACLs.

As for endurance, strength is an incredibly persistent adaptation. Getting up the cardio conditioning curve is a pretty quick process: we gain and lose that capacity quickly. Getting up that curve when you're very strong is effortless. Adam may well be making our guys relatively stronger than the competition, so they're better conditioned. I have no idea, of course, because I don't know how he trains them. It's obvious, however, that they don't lift meaningfully, and so a lot of potential goes unrealized. That's a shame.

It's incredible that these programs leave so much on the table where athlete performance is concerned. It's such low-hanging fruit it's unbelievable that it's ignored. I have little confidence, however, that it will change anytime soon.
 
#512      
FreshlySqueezed
altgeld88 said:
TL; DR: We have no idea. S&C programs appear to waste incredible amounts of time and resources and leave untold amounts of athlete performance on the table. These guys should be lifting heavy, which will enable them to couple their genetically-gifted neuromuscular efficiency (explosiveness) with immense force production, armor them against injury, and realize their physical potential. It won't happen anytime soon. Then they should go practice basketball. Skip the BOSU balls.

******************

I'll post what will certainly be an unpopular response (lol, who am I kidding... I'm gonna get dogpiled): we have no reason to believe he's a star in absolute terms though he may well be relative to other S&C coaches simply because the bar is set so low. I'll note in advance that I've never seen his training plan, and have only seen the social media snippets of guys in the weight room that the DIA publicizes. It seems clear, however, that a lot of performance is being left on the table, and our guys could benefit by being much stronger.

Any D-1 athlete is a genetic freak residing at the extreme end of the distribution of neuromuscular efficiency. Someone has a 35-inch vertical jump (or a 48-inch one if he's Darrell Griffith or MJ) because he's crazy efficient at recruiting motor neurons to contract muscles. It's not something that can be trained except at a very small margin (adding perhaps a couple %.) Bring these guys in at 18 and you can literally do little more than feed them and they will grow, get bigger by the time they're 22, and look like gods throughout.

D-1 players are on the court partly because they're incredibly explosive, a.k.a. "powerful." (In extremis: TSJ.) That power is a function of the force they can apply over a distance in a unit of time. "Time" is the explosiveness variable and (e.g., the SVJ) isn't amenable to training. But you can train the force component: lift heavy weights. Anything less is a suboptimal approach to using the limited time available for training. SVJ, agility, etc... can't be trained for meaningful gain. Strength certainly can, for years on end.

I may be wrong about what Adam is doing with the guys; however, from the social media I see, it's not lifting heavy weights. It's lifting fairly light weights, balancing on BOSU balls while asymmetrically loaded with dumbbells, and other suboptimal exercises.

I'm unaware of a single basketball program in which the S&C coach trains players meaningfully for strength. Everyone on our team should be at the very least squatting 500 and deadlifting 600. Probably much more. (Kofi probably should have been pulling upwards of 800.) The development of that kind of force production combined with innate neuromuscular efficiency would maximize their physical potential. It would also make them a great deal more difficult to push around on the court and bullet proof their joints (esp. knees) from injury. It would make them stronger, more powerful, more resilient athletes.

(Let's dismiss the strawman here that this will make them into fat, sluggish, mediocre linemen. No, it won't. Or, horrors, "musclebound.")

The problem is that head coaches aren't informed consumers of S&C programs, and so an S&C coach who wants to keep his job will never risk training his athletes to lift properly (and, frankly, few if any S&C coaches appear to understand how to lift properly.) Mark Rippetoe of Starting Strength fame has written at great length about this topic for many, many years. (This article from 2016 for example. Yeah, it's long.) The barrier to entry here is understanding the mechanics of safe, efficient lifting, learning to coach it, and teaching lifters how to manage psychologically when the load gets really heavy. It's an acquired skill that takes time and intelligence. So instead we get high-volume sets at light weight, relatively light "squatlifting" with a trap bar, and "heavy squats will injure your knees!" Yeah, they will: if you do them incorrectly. If you do them correctly, which is fairly easy to learn, they'll write you an insurance policy against torn ACLs.

As for endurance, strength is an incredibly persistent adaptation. Getting up the cardio conditioning curve is a pretty quick process: we gain and lose that capacity quickly. Getting up that curve when you're very strong is effortless. Adam may well be making our guys relatively stronger than the competition, so they're better conditioned. I have no idea, of course, because I don't know how he trains them. It's obvious, however, that they don't lift meaningfully, and so a lot of potential goes unrealized. That's a shame.

It's incredible that these programs leave so much on the table where athlete performance is concerned. It's such low-hanging fruit it's unbelievable that it's ignored. I have little confidence, however, that it will change anytime soon.
Click to expand...
Man, I'm not sure I could disagree with a post more.

I have many, many friends that work successfully in the fitness industry and I am pretty certain they wouldn't agree with much of it either.
 
#513      
blackdog
altgeld88 said:
TL; DR: We have no idea. S&C programs appear to waste incredible amounts of time and resources and leave untold amounts of athlete performance on the table. These guys should be lifting heavy, which will enable them to couple their genetically-gifted neuromuscular efficiency (explosiveness) with immense force production, armor them against injury, and realize their physical potential. It won't happen anytime soon. Then they should go practice basketball. Skip the BOSU balls.

******************

I'll post what will certainly be an unpopular response (lol, who am I kidding... I'm gonna get dogpiled): we have no reason to believe he's a star in absolute terms though he may well be relative to other S&C coaches simply because the bar is set so low. I'll note in advance that I've never seen his training plan, and have only seen the social media snippets of guys in the weight room that the DIA publicizes. It seems clear, however, that a lot of performance is being left on the table, and our guys could benefit by being much stronger.

Any D-1 athlete is a genetic freak residing at the extreme end of the distribution of neuromuscular efficiency. Someone has a 35-inch vertical jump (or a 48-inch one if he's Darrell Griffith or MJ) because he's crazy efficient at recruiting motor neurons to contract muscles. It's not something that can be trained except at a very small margin (adding perhaps a couple %.) Bring these guys in at 18 and you can literally do little more than feed them and they will grow, get bigger by the time they're 22, and look like gods throughout.

D-1 players are on the court partly because they're incredibly explosive, a.k.a. "powerful." (In extremis: TSJ.) That power is a function of the force they can apply over a distance in a unit of time. "Time" is the explosiveness variable and (e.g., the SVJ) isn't amenable to training. But you can train the force component: lift heavy weights. Anything less is a suboptimal approach to using the limited time available for training. SVJ, agility, etc... can't be trained for meaningful gain. Strength certainly can, for years on end.

I may be wrong about what Adam is doing with the guys; however, from the social media I see, it's not lifting heavy weights. It's lifting fairly light weights, balancing on BOSU balls while asymmetrically loaded with dumbbells, and other suboptimal exercises.

I'm unaware of a single basketball program in which the S&C coach trains players meaningfully for strength. Everyone on our team should be at the very least squatting 500 and deadlifting 600. Probably much more. (Kofi probably should have been pulling upwards of 800.) The development of that kind of force production combined with innate neuromuscular efficiency would maximize their physical potential. It would also make them a great deal more difficult to push around on the court and bullet proof their joints (esp. knees) from injury. It would make them stronger, more powerful, more resilient athletes.

(Let's dismiss the strawman here that this will make them into fat, sluggish, mediocre linemen. No, it won't. Or, horrors, "musclebound.")

The problem is that head coaches aren't informed consumers of S&C programs, and so an S&C coach who wants to keep his job will never risk training his athletes to lift properly (and, frankly, few if any S&C coaches appear to understand how to lift properly.) Mark Rippetoe of Starting Strength fame has written at great length about this topic for many, many years. (This article from 2016 for example. Yeah, it's long.) The barrier to entry here is understanding the mechanics of safe, efficient lifting, learning to coach it, and teaching lifters how to manage psychologically when the load gets really heavy. It's an acquired skill that takes time and intelligence. So instead we get high-volume sets at light weight, relatively light "squatlifting" with a trap bar, and "heavy squats will injure your knees!" Yeah, they will: if you do them incorrectly. If you do them correctly, which is fairly easy to learn, they'll write you an insurance policy against torn ACLs.

As for endurance, strength is an incredibly persistent adaptation. Getting up the cardio conditioning curve is a pretty quick process: we gain and lose that capacity quickly. Getting up that curve when you're very strong is effortless. Adam may well be making our guys relatively stronger than the competition, so they're better conditioned. I have no idea, of course, because I don't know how he trains them. It's obvious, however, that they don't lift meaningfully, and so a lot of potential goes unrealized. That's a shame.

It's incredible that these programs leave so much on the table where athlete performance is concerned. It's such low-hanging fruit it's unbelievable that it's ignored. I have little confidence, however, that it will change anytime soon.
Click to expand...

Sometimes I think the same thing but then I see videos of NBA players doing the same types of workouts. Those teams have a lot of money invested in trying to use the best science to improve performance so that must mean there is something to the methods they are using.
 
#514      
Illinifrank67
altgeld88 said:
TL; DR: We have no idea. S&C programs appear to waste incredible amounts of time and resources and leave untold amounts of athlete performance on the table. These guys should be lifting heavy, which will enable them to couple their genetically-gifted neuromuscular efficiency (explosiveness) with immense force production, armor them against injury, and realize their physical potential. It won't happen anytime soon. Then they should go practice basketball. Skip the BOSU balls.

******************

I'll post what will certainly be an unpopular response (lol, who am I kidding... I'm gonna get dogpiled): we have no reason to believe he's a star in absolute terms though he may well be relative to other S&C coaches simply because the bar is set so low. I'll note in advance that I've never seen his training plan, and have only seen the social media snippets of guys in the weight room that the DIA publicizes. It seems clear, however, that a lot of performance is being left on the table, and our guys could benefit by being much stronger.

Any D-1 athlete is a genetic freak residing at the extreme end of the distribution of neuromuscular efficiency. Someone has a 35-inch vertical jump (or a 48-inch one if he's Darrell Griffith or MJ) because he's crazy efficient at recruiting motor neurons to contract muscles. It's not something that can be trained except at a very small margin (adding perhaps a couple %.) Bring these guys in at 18 and you can literally do little more than feed them and they will grow, get bigger by the time they're 22, and look like gods throughout.

D-1 players are on the court partly because they're incredibly explosive, a.k.a. "powerful." (In extremis: TSJ.) That power is a function of the force they can apply over a distance in a unit of time. "Time" is the explosiveness variable and (e.g., the SVJ) isn't amenable to training. But you can train the force component: lift heavy weights. Anything less is a suboptimal approach to using the limited time available for training. SVJ, agility, etc... can't be trained for meaningful gain. Strength certainly can, for years on end.

I may be wrong about what Adam is doing with the guys; however, from the social media I see, it's not lifting heavy weights. It's lifting fairly light weights, balancing on BOSU balls while asymmetrically loaded with dumbbells, and other suboptimal exercises.

I'm unaware of a single basketball program in which the S&C coach trains players meaningfully for strength. Everyone on our team should be at the very least squatting 500 and deadlifting 600. Probably much more. (Kofi probably should have been pulling upwards of 800.) The development of that kind of force production combined with innate neuromuscular efficiency would maximize their physical potential. It would also make them a great deal more difficult to push around on the court and bullet proof their joints (esp. knees) from injury. It would make them stronger, more powerful, more resilient athletes.

(Let's dismiss the strawman here that this will make them into fat, sluggish, mediocre linemen. No, it won't. Or, horrors, "musclebound.")

The problem is that head coaches aren't informed consumers of S&C programs, and so an S&C coach who wants to keep his job will never risk training his athletes to lift properly (and, frankly, few if any S&C coaches appear to understand how to lift properly.) Mark Rippetoe of Starting Strength fame has written at great length about this topic for many, many years. (This article from 2016 for example. Yeah, it's long.) The barrier to entry here is understanding the mechanics of safe, efficient lifting, learning to coach it, and teaching lifters how to manage psychologically when the load gets really heavy. It's an acquired skill that takes time and intelligence. So instead we get high-volume sets at light weight, relatively light "squatlifting" with a trap bar, and "heavy squats will injure your knees!" Yeah, they will: if you do them incorrectly. If you do them correctly, which is fairly easy to learn, they'll write you an insurance policy against torn ACLs.

As for endurance, strength is an incredibly persistent adaptation. Getting up the cardio conditioning curve is a pretty quick process: we gain and lose that capacity quickly. Getting up that curve when you're very strong is effortless. Adam may well be making our guys relatively stronger than the competition, so they're better conditioned. I have no idea, of course, because I don't know how he trains them. It's obvious, however, that they don't lift meaningfully, and so a lot of potential goes unrealized. That's a shame.

It's incredible that these programs leave so much on the table where athlete performance is concerned. It's such low-hanging fruit it's unbelievable that it's ignored. I have little confidence, however, that it will change anytime soon.
Click to expand...
Did you even watch space jam?

Space Jam Basketball GIF by Looney Tunes
 
#515      
logjam
Tevo said:
Can someone explain why we are all so convinced Fletch is so good? I have no reason to doubt that he is, but he is up there with Bill Brasky as far as legends go, and I'm not sure what the empirical evidence is. We don't seem to avoid injuries any better than anyone else. We don't seem to have guys who simply overpower our opponents (except Terrance, and I think he has been that way for a while). Plenty of other kids cut baby fat and add muscle.

Are there rankings for S&C coaches? Is there data people use to evaluate success or skill?
Click to expand...
Oprah Winfrey Reaction GIF
 
#518      
biglug58
altgeld88 said:
TL; DR: We have no idea. S&C programs appear to waste incredible amounts of time and resources and leave untold amounts of athlete performance on the table. These guys should be lifting heavy, which will enable them to couple their genetically-gifted neuromuscular efficiency (explosiveness) with immense force production, armor them against injury, and realize their physical potential. It won't happen anytime soon. Then they should go practice basketball. Skip the BOSU balls.

******************

I'll post what will certainly be an unpopular response (lol, who am I kidding... I'm gonna get dogpiled): we have no reason to believe he's a star in absolute terms though he may well be relative to other S&C coaches simply because the bar is set so low. I'll note in advance that I've never seen his training plan, and have only seen the social media snippets of guys in the weight room that the DIA publicizes. It seems clear, however, that a lot of performance is being left on the table, and our guys could benefit by being much stronger.

Any D-1 athlete is a genetic freak residing at the extreme end of the distribution of neuromuscular efficiency. Someone has a 35-inch vertical jump (or a 48-inch one if he's Darrell Griffith or MJ) because he's crazy efficient at recruiting motor neurons to contract muscles. It's not something that can be trained except at a very small margin (adding perhaps a couple %.) Bring these guys in at 18 and you can literally do little more than feed them and they will grow, get bigger by the time they're 22, and look like gods throughout.

D-1 players are on the court partly because they're incredibly explosive, a.k.a. "powerful." (In extremis: TSJ.) That power is a function of the force they can apply over a distance in a unit of time. "Time" is the explosiveness variable and (e.g., the SVJ) isn't amenable to training. But you can train the force component: lift heavy weights. Anything less is a suboptimal approach to using the limited time available for training. SVJ, agility, etc... can't be trained for meaningful gain. Strength certainly can, for years on end.

I may be wrong about what Adam is doing with the guys; however, from the social media I see, it's not lifting heavy weights. It's lifting fairly light weights, balancing on BOSU balls while asymmetrically loaded with dumbbells, and other suboptimal exercises.

I'm unaware of a single basketball program in which the S&C coach trains players meaningfully for strength. Everyone on our team should be at the very least squatting 500 and deadlifting 600. Probably much more. (Kofi probably should have been pulling upwards of 800.) The development of that kind of force production combined with innate neuromuscular efficiency would maximize their physical potential. It would also make them a great deal more difficult to push around on the court and bullet proof their joints (esp. knees) from injury. It would make them stronger, more powerful, more resilient athletes.

(Let's dismiss the strawman here that this will make them into fat, sluggish, mediocre linemen. No, it won't. Or, horrors, "musclebound.")

The problem is that head coaches aren't informed consumers of S&C programs, and so an S&C coach who wants to keep his job will never risk training his athletes to lift properly (and, frankly, few if any S&C coaches appear to understand how to lift properly.) Mark Rippetoe of Starting Strength fame has written at great length about this topic for many, many years. (This article from 2016 for example. Yeah, it's long.) The barrier to entry here is understanding the mechanics of safe, efficient lifting, learning to coach it, and teaching lifters how to manage psychologically when the load gets really heavy. It's an acquired skill that takes time and intelligence. So instead we get high-volume sets at light weight, relatively light "squatlifting" with a trap bar, and "heavy squats will injure your knees!" Yeah, they will: if you do them incorrectly. If you do them correctly, which is fairly easy to learn, they'll write you an insurance policy against torn ACLs.

As for endurance, strength is an incredibly persistent adaptation. Getting up the cardio conditioning curve is a pretty quick process: we gain and lose that capacity quickly. Getting up that curve when you're very strong is effortless. Adam may well be making our guys relatively stronger than the competition, so they're better conditioned. I have no idea, of course, because I don't know how he trains them. It's obvious, however, that they don't lift meaningfully, and so a lot of potential goes unrealized. That's a shame.

It's incredible that these programs leave so much on the table where athlete performance is concerned. It's such low-hanging fruit it's unbelievable that it's ignored. I have little confidence, however, that it will change anytime soon.
Click to expand...
Well written, obviously knowledgeable post. You raise some good points. No dog pile.
 
#525      
GrayGhost77
altgeld88 said:
TL; DR: We have no idea. S&C programs appear to waste incredible amounts of time and resources and leave untold amounts of athlete performance on the table. These guys should be lifting heavy, which will enable them to couple their genetically-gifted neuromuscular efficiency (explosiveness) with immense force production, armor them against injury, and realize their physical potential. It won't happen anytime soon. Then they should go practice basketball. Skip the BOSU balls.

******************

I'll post what will certainly be an unpopular response (lol, who am I kidding... I'm gonna get dogpiled): we have no reason to believe he's a star in absolute terms though he may well be relative to other S&C coaches simply because the bar is set so low. I'll note in advance that I've never seen his training plan, and have only seen the social media snippets of guys in the weight room that the DIA publicizes. It seems clear, however, that a lot of performance is being left on the table, and our guys could benefit by being much stronger.

Any D-1 athlete is a genetic freak residing at the extreme end of the distribution of neuromuscular efficiency. Someone has a 35-inch vertical jump (or a 48-inch one if he's Darrell Griffith or MJ) because he's crazy efficient at recruiting motor neurons to contract muscles. It's not something that can be trained except at a very small margin (adding perhaps a couple %.) Bring these guys in at 18 and you can literally do little more than feed them and they will grow, get bigger by the time they're 22, and look like gods throughout.

D-1 players are on the court partly because they're incredibly explosive, a.k.a. "powerful." (In extremis: TSJ.) That power is a function of the force they can apply over a distance in a unit of time. "Time" is the explosiveness variable and (e.g., the SVJ) isn't amenable to training. But you can train the force component: lift heavy weights. Anything less is a suboptimal approach to using the limited time available for training. SVJ, agility, etc... can't be trained for meaningful gain. Strength certainly can, for years on end.

I may be wrong about what Adam is doing with the guys; however, from the social media I see, it's not lifting heavy weights. It's lifting fairly light weights, balancing on BOSU balls while asymmetrically loaded with dumbbells, and other suboptimal exercises.

I'm unaware of a single basketball program in which the S&C coach trains players meaningfully for strength. Everyone on our team should be at the very least squatting 500 and deadlifting 600. Probably much more. (Kofi probably should have been pulling upwards of 800.) The development of that kind of force production combined with innate neuromuscular efficiency would maximize their physical potential. It would also make them a great deal more difficult to push around on the court and bullet proof their joints (esp. knees) from injury. It would make them stronger, more powerful, more resilient athletes.

(Let's dismiss the strawman here that this will make them into fat, sluggish, mediocre linemen. No, it won't. Or, horrors, "musclebound.")

The problem is that head coaches aren't informed consumers of S&C programs, and so an S&C coach who wants to keep his job will never risk training his athletes to lift properly (and, frankly, few if any S&C coaches appear to understand how to lift properly.) Mark Rippetoe of Starting Strength fame has written at great length about this topic for many, many years. (This article from 2016 for example. Yeah, it's long.) The barrier to entry here is understanding the mechanics of safe, efficient lifting, learning to coach it, and teaching lifters how to manage psychologically when the load gets really heavy. It's an acquired skill that takes time and intelligence. So instead we get high-volume sets at light weight, relatively light "squatlifting" with a trap bar, and "heavy squats will injure your knees!" Yeah, they will: if you do them incorrectly. If you do them correctly, which is fairly easy to learn, they'll write you an insurance policy against torn ACLs.

As for endurance, strength is an incredibly persistent adaptation. Getting up the cardio conditioning curve is a pretty quick process: we gain and lose that capacity quickly. Getting up that curve when you're very strong is effortless. Adam may well be making our guys relatively stronger than the competition, so they're better conditioned. I have no idea, of course, because I don't know how he trains them. It's obvious, however, that they don't lift meaningfully, and so a lot of potential goes unrealized. That's a shame.

It's incredible that these programs leave so much on the table where athlete performance is concerned. It's such low-hanging fruit it's unbelievable that it's ignored. I have little confidence, however, that it will change anytime soon.
Click to expand...
Agree with most everything you said here. Obviously a Ripper devotee. I have read many of his books and read SS articles on the reg, and am a former competitive powerlifter and Olympic weightlifter myself. That said, do any of us really know the intricacies of Fletch's programs? Do we know they don't involve a serious strength component? No doubt many S &C coaches are a joke and just latch onto the latest fad in the industry. I'd like to think (hope) that our guy is somehow different.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back