Ty Rodgers to take redshirt year

#351      
aaeismacgychel
illini0440 said:
It’s not Ty vs Tre, it’s Ty vs Ben, Tre, Carey, Will
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And even more acutely how Ty believes he compares with Tre, Ben, Carey, and Will vs. how Brad believes Ty does.

As of now I don't think we have enough information to truly know the answer of who is more correct as it takes future play and progression into account. So if you rank Ty as 4th or 5th in that group it's easy to argue he'd only get 10mpg max. If you rank him as 2nd in that group you point to Tre, Ben, and Carey not showing all that much yet. Overall, it's a reasonable argument as it's based off perception and we'll see how it plays out as the season goes on.
 
#352      
BigMuddyMonster
BretMyBeachHouse said:
Well, the receipts are easily found.

Yes you said.
You got quite a bit of support.
A couple (maybe three) people praised Ty and felt you were exaggerating how much of a liability he was.
No one "attacked" you.

Sorry, the glory of your martyrdom just doesn't really hold up under minimal inspection.
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Seems like you are still bothered my man.
 
#353      
PIT_ILL
Don't love it because Ty like coach said is just a winner. He might not have any characteristics that jump off the page but he is a guy you always like to have.

That being said I think this program handles this stuff better than most and I doubt that goes unnoticed when they are either recruiting or looking for assistants. You come to Illinois and it might not work out but they are going to take care of you and set you up for success. This is infinitely better for long term success than news breaking that Ty is transferring last night. Right now he gets to take his time to research and back channel while using a world class facility, having tons of resources, and getting paid. It is a good business model for the program.
 
#354      
IlliniFandom
I don't love this for us. Ty is a piece that all great teams need. He is a glue with exceptional defensive energy and bounce. Losing him, I actually believe hurts our chances for a long run in the tourney. I get why he made the choice, but I also think it may be partly Brad's fault too for recruiting over him. I would rather take ty than white.
 
#355      
TonyClifton
IlliniFandom said:
I don't love this for us. Ty is a piece that all great teams need. He is a glue with exceptional defensive energy and bounce. Losing him, I actually believe hurts our chances for a long run in the tourney. I get why he made the choice, but I also think it may be partly Brad's fault too for recruiting over him. I would rather take ty than white.
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Over Riley and Hum too?
 
#357      
aaeismacgychel
IlliniFan42 said:
I love bringing numbers into these discussions so my counter would be sometimes numbers mislead.

Looking at the above, it appears Ty is more efficient offensively because he's passing to scorers and he's attempting to score 33% less than Tre. However (and stick with me, because it gets nuanced here), Ty's FG% looks better on the surface because he's not shooting any 3's. If you compare just 2P%, it's very close. Tre's FT% also blows Ty's out of the water, and FT% is often used to indicate how much a player's shot can improve.

So when it comes specifically to scoring, I'd rather take Tre, despite him appearing worse in terms of efficiency. It's clear he's a far greater offensive threat. My guess is Ty's inability to shoot leads to his inflated assist total, while Tre, who can shoot, has less assists and hopefully improves his 3-pt shooting a tad.

When it comes to defensive rating, people generally agree that it's hard to quantify between players on different teams because it relies heavily on the team, so their ratings are close enough it's not a concern for me. To me it appeared Rodgers often cleaned up on defense because he knew he's an offensive liability so had to make up for it or else he'd hit the bench.
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So, I'll say 2 things about the statistical comparison between Tre and Ty:

1. The advanced stats do not suggest the "Tre is Ty with more offense" opinion that some have espoused on here is anywhere close to the truth. They'd be considered extremely different players. Ty based on both broad and relative comparison has been a much better and more consistent defender. Tre based on both broad and relative comparison is a much more accomplished offensive player though has a lot more usage and is a much higher volume shooter of lower efficiency shots. They're not remotely similar players statistically.

2. There's no one size fits all statistical answer here. If you need defense and a phenomenal offensive rebounder who doesn't create his own shot and is lower usage offensively but is efficient when he takes them, choose Ty. If you need a player who is much higher usage on offense and creates his own shots, albeit less efficient ones, and does a much better job at spacing the floor, choose Tre. The question is what style fits best for what you're trying to do and the lineups?

Overall though, there are a few things for certain: It is way way way too early to know conclusively Ty>>>>>>Tre or Tre>>>>>Ty and there is far more to this comparison than just Tre vs. Ty, it involves several other players along with fit and scheme. By the end of January though we should have a fairly good idea.
 
#358      
FreshlySqueezed
aaeismacgychel said:
So, I'll say 2 things about the statistical comparison between Tre and Ty:

1. The advanced stats do not suggest the "Tre is Ty with more offense" opinion that some have espoused on here is anywhere close to the truth. They'd be considered extremely different players. Ty based on both broad and relative comparison has been a much better and more consistent defender. Tre based on both broad and relative comparison is a much more accomplished offensive player though has a lot more usage and is a much higher volume shooter of lower efficiency shots. They're not remotely similar players statistically.

2. There's no one size fits all statistical answer here. If you need defense and a phenomenal offensive rebounder who doesn't create his own shot and is lower usage offensively but is efficient when he takes them, choose Ty. If you need a player who is much higher usage on offense and creates his own shots, albeit less efficient ones, and does a much better job at spacing the floor, choose Tre. The question is what style fits best for what you're trying to do and the lineups?

Overall though, there are a few things for certain: It is way way way too early to know conclusively Ty>>>>>>Tre or Tre>>>>>Ty and there is far more to this comparison than just Tre vs. Ty, it involves several other players along with fit and scheme. By the end of January though we should have a fairly good idea.
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Let me address this here because I think it's way oversimplifying things.

Ty not only does not create his own shot (think Luke Goode), but he is zero threat to shoot the ball outside of 6 feet. There is a massive difference in those two types of offensive limitations. I really don't think some people understand how big of a deal it is. It doesn't mean he's useless, but there's a real ceiling there in terms of minutes and it is very dependent on the roster around that type of player.

And I don't think we can say that Tre White will create and take less efficient shots here. He didn't take inefficient shots last night. Our shot chart was a coach's wet dream and Tre White only took two shots, both 3-pointers. He got to line 3x and ended up scoring 5 points on those 2 shots.

This is where practice matters. If Brad thought Tre White was going to be jacking up bad shots when he was on the floor, he wouldn't be on the floor for very long. Most of us message board dorks can only go off what we see during games but Tre White has a new coach, a new role, etc. so I don't think we can necessarily judge certain things about him based on his last two years.

Bottom line - without developing a jump shot, Ty Rodgers was never going to play more than he did last season. Age and loyalty should not play a factor in PT at a program of our caliber.
 
#359      
IlliniKat91
15 pages for me to learn Ty's mom is also posting on this board.

Ty is a fantastic young man, but he's struggled to get anything going offensively while at Illinois. I'm happy he gets a chance to do what's right for him, and I'm certain this was his choice because I don't think BU brings him to media days and asks him to speak for the team if it was his plan to push him out by cutting his minutes.

Ty didn't want to be a glue/come in and kill it on defense when the offensive firepower isn't cutting it guy. That's okay. He's making a move that works for him. That's fantastic, and Illinois basketball will be fine regardless.
 
#361      
splitter
This is the new norm. Ty goes from starting last year to probably 10 minutes off the bench. He can still be the leadership needed in the locker room, practice and from the bench. i will wish him well whether he leaves or returns Sencire and Amani followed Chester he left. Wish them well too. Hopefully if TA gets a coaching job next year it is not in the BIG 10.
 
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