i like Walker, Edman, Donovan, Carlson and Burleson, take any three of the youngsters left.
Gorman might be the most valuable of the rest.
Gorman might be the most valuable of the rest.
St Louis Cardinals 2023
- Status
Walker and Winn are not getting traded
It will be expensive to get a #1 pitcher, let alone a young #1 pitcher
(Not saying this should happen) Starting price would be something like O'Neill, Graceffo(one of top RHP in our system) plus probably another good MLB player and good prospect.
Cardinals are nuts if they are trading for a top of the order SP before Wainwright comes back. Part of it also has to do with Steven Matz's contract. He still has 2 years left after this season. If that wasn't the case things would be a little be easier.
This is what I would like to see happen
Get Wainwright back, move Matz to end of rotation, move Woodford to bullpen and eventually call up Liberatore.
All of this happened last year as well and added Montgomery and Quintana cheap later in the season. Frustration is setting in early
There is only one player where the Cardinals should give up the farm for....Ohtani. Cardinals have enough to land Ohtani more so worried if he would stay long term. That is the only player I currently see the Cardinals giving up Walker or Winn in a deal and it would take a ton.
Dee_4_Three_83
- Mahomet, IL
DReq
Always Illini
- Central Illinois
socalini
- So Cali
I guess it just depends on if you think he's really washed up or not. I tend to think he's probably not.
I wouldn't move Walker or Winn, i said, that the first thing another team is going to ask for a #1 are one of those guys. None of those guys you mention except for maybe Flaherty will ever be a #1 starter. This team is woefully weak on the mound and can maybe make the playoffs because of the weak division we are in, but will never compete for a world series with out at least a #1 and maybe a #2 guy on the mound. Phillies showed just how weak we were in the playoffs. Suck it up and think about saying goodbye to some 2,3 player combination of Gorman, Oneill, Graceffo, maybe class A pitchers like Tink Hence, Cooper Hjerpe or CF Victor Scott. BTW; Scott, Hjerpe and C Jimmy Crooks might move fast. College kids who are above the rest down in Peoria.
I am aware what you said. Just was stating my opinion on the manner is all.
I live in the St Louis area and the sky is not falling. This is a typical thing that has happened for years now and we have made the playoffs for awhile. Honestly if we scored a run or two with guys on in a couple of games we would be a few games over .500 now even with bad pitching. Team can get players on...same time we have left a ton of them on. We are typically anywhere from a few games under .500 to few games over .500 after 20 regular season games for years now.
Cardinals have been without a #1 pitcher for years. I love Waino and he brings a ton to the clubhouse. Waino and Flaherty have #2 type starter stuff when on. Problem is when on or not injured.
I think the 3 untouchables for prospects are Walker, Winn and Hence. If going after Ohtani only, than Cardinals would have ears for anything. The only way the Cards land him is by trade and that is giving up a ton without knowing if he would re-sign. Two best players on our roster have come from trade. Won't hurt trying to land him with current players/prospects....since he is the real deal.
The season is young....Are there #1 guys going to be up on the market before the trade deadline? What #1 guys are going to be free agents this offseason? Haven't looked at either of those yet.
They leave more than 8 runners on per game. 154 this year. That's the most in the majors. The good news is they are 4th with a .274 average so in theory they have had bad luck and will begin to drive a few more runs in each game.
Exactly
Except him and our catcher hate each other
I think we are in general agreement and don't mean to say we aren't competitive or that the sky is falling. We will make a 8 of 10 run soon and be right back in the division race one of these days, but unless we go out and get a #1 starter (or a 1 and a 2) we are not going to beat the Dodgers, Phillies maybe even the Mets in a playoff series. i love waino and everything he's brought to the team, but he's no longer a top half of the rotation guy.
What top of the line starter is available right now? None
Top of line starter available before trade deadline? Few at most if they are out of race and team wants to shed payroll, not pay them in future or looking for rebuild
I was a little shocked the Cardinals didn't pursue Max Scherzer last offseason. Cards don't mind forking out more money for 2-3 year deals. I hope Miles Mikolas turns it on this season but was also disappointed he was given the 2 year extension before the season. Next thing will be if the Cardinals extend Flaherty or let him hit FA for more money elsewhere. Wainwright money comes off the books.
We are in general agreement and is more than fine if we aren't as well. Cardinals stick to way of doing things and have for many years. It is frustrating not having a clear cut #1 starter for many years but I know they also will make moves. No clue what will happen but interested to see if the whole Bally Sports contract messes with payroll beyond 2023 or if it gets figured out. I know the owner said it won't mess with the 2023 season before this season started.
Cardinals spend and earn money but they won't ever be able to spend with the top market teams year in and out. Part of it comes to market and also owner. Mets owner Cohen is worth $17+ billion dollars, Cardinals owner just over $2 billion. The Mets can spend over the tax limit and is like a slap on the wrist for him. The key teams if spending more money is to make a run and than get below the tax threshold as it escalates the more years you stay above it. Dodgers dropped payroll to do it this offseason. Plus it also sets them up to spend if Ohtani would make it to free agency.
Cardinals have won the last two WS with different pitching staffs. Both used around 5-6 starters during the season.
The 2006 squad had #1 Chris Carpenter and Suppan, other 4 starters were above 5 in ERA.
The 2011 squad had Carpenter who was fine but all 6 starters were below 5 in ERA. (4 of the 6 below ERA of 4)
Hot team at the end of the season takes it....hopefully the Cards can turn it on at the right time
The Cards have some very good players. They have some decent prospects but as a whole they are not a great team. We look at what they could be if everything clicks that's what we expect them to be ever single game. Truth is they are an average team at best.
Ryllini
- Lombard
No question, our pitching talent down low just isn't matching the timing of our positional players on the bug squad. I just didn't think the starting staff would be this below average. We need atleast 2 front end rotational big league ready arms now.
I saw a Stat the other day that had 5 of our players in the top 37 of strikes called out of the zone. I've never been heavily conspiratorial, but I wonder how much that beef Oli had with I think CB Bucknor to end last year and this spring training. That is a fraternity too. I know, I know when things are bad you start trying to find anything to blame, I just thought thr Stat was interesting.
Management and ownership knew the pitching situation in the off season. The one thing they did was shore up the catching. Otherwise they stood pat with a staff that could not get by the Phillies in the playoffs. By the way a staff that is somewhat injury prone. The Montgomery trade looks like a winner. It is what it is until something else shakes out.
Let me be clear, maybe we don't agree all that much. i don't agree to the "way of doing things". I don't think Moz has winning a world series ahead of staying safe and limping into a wildcard or division title without a hope of beating a top NL contender. The birds don't have a pitcher that can compete and lead like Carpenter did any more. When we passed on Scherzer it reaffirmed my concerns. Cards have to watch the teams that have #1 type arms going into or before the trade deadline. Maybe there's an under preforming team who wants to dump a salary or they know that in a year or two they cant extend a future #1. I'm not day to day enough in the weeds to tell you who those guys are.
On a parallel topic: Flaherty hasn't proved that he's a #1 or indicated that he really wants to stay in STL. maybe a clean swap of him for Walker Buehler (a midwest kid) would make both happy. I still think a top starter in addition to either of those two is necessary to compete. if birds are not competing they are losing. Lets not go down the Cubs road and just be happy to fill the stadium and sell Budweiser products.
We can’t pitch. We aren’t slugging…..recipe for disaster
DeJong activated from IL and starting at SS today. Motter DFAed.
pruman91
- Paducah, Ky
Cardinals win 7-3 over the Mariners....
Flaherty with the first quality start by someone NOT named Montgomery...............
Nootbaar with a solid game lead off HR ................................
Gorman with a 3 run Homer......solid year for him with his adjustments of laying off the high heat and sliders down..........
Paul DeJong with a 3 hit return to the major's game , including a homer..............He has adjusted his swing with a shorter stroke ...
THAT'S A WINNER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Flaherty with the first quality start by someone NOT named Montgomery...............
Nootbaar with a solid game lead off HR ................................
Gorman with a 3 run Homer......solid year for him with his adjustments of laying off the high heat and sliders down..........
Paul DeJong with a 3 hit return to the major's game , including a homer..............He has adjusted his swing with a shorter stroke ...
THAT'S A WINNER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- Status