Ryllini
- Lombard
Don't know, but I'd say he earned the right to start another game. If he is hot, roll with him.
St Louis Cardinals 2023
- Status
The spot were in with Dejong is simply, he isnt a SS. maybe a 2B,
maybe an OF or DH. Until the front office tells Marmol to put him
where he can most help the team, we just got weaker defensively.
maybe an OF or DH. Until the front office tells Marmol to put him
where he can most help the team, we just got weaker defensively.
Do you consider Tommy Edmund a shortstop? By the way I believe DeJong is a utility player at best right now. I really like him as a player, but I believe for the betterment of his career he needs to be elsewhere.
Cardinals have a ton of utility players that aren't consistent. Just hoping we don't waste the prime years of Goldy/Arenado with a lackluster supporting cast.
Bringing up DeJong was in the works whether he was hitting .200 or .400 in the minors. If he doesn't perform they can buy him out after this season and he is gone. Masyn Winn needs to play every day and needs time in AAA. Winn is hitting around the Mendoza Line and needs routine work at SS. DeJong is kind of like the O'Neill of the infield. If he can bat .250 range or higher with his pop he is an asset to the team....just hoping we don't see the below .200 hitter of the last few seasons.
Bringing up DeJong was in the works whether he was hitting .200 or .400 in the minors. If he doesn't perform they can buy him out after this season and he is gone. Masyn Winn needs to play every day and needs time in AAA. Winn is hitting around the Mendoza Line and needs routine work at SS. DeJong is kind of like the O'Neill of the infield. If he can bat .250 range or higher with his pop he is an asset to the team....just hoping we don't see the below .200 hitter of the last few seasons.
i do and i agree. he played there is college,(with Stanford team mate/Cub Nico Hoerner) has significantly better range than
Dejong and is solid if not spectacular. Offensively, i'll take Edman's consistency all day compared to Dejong's hot week and
cold month. I think Winn might be the real thing, but he's at least a year or two away. then Edman might be a longer term
second baseman or utility guy.
i heard consistency, actually nobody on this team has shown consistency. we put way to much pressure on Goldy and Nado
to carry us offensively. .
to carry us offensively. .
We don't put pressure on them...they are FRANCHISE players who show up
It is the supporting cast the pressure is on. It has been that way for years.
DeJong is actually an above average defensive shortstop. He's obviously not as good as Edman, but certainly better than Motter was. His role will almost certainly be as a utility infielder, behind Edman, Donovan and Gorman in the depth chart. If he gives us the occasional game like yesterday, that's a bonus.
he fields the ones he gets to, thats for sure. im not sure the metrics take into account his lack of range.
Fair enough. If that is the case, why was Edman playing second when Dejong was still in the line-up as the starting shortstop?
Probably to give Arenado a night off. Donovan played 3rd.
They do. There are even range specific statistics. But even WAR takes it into account because the more balls you get to, the more plays you can make, and the more value you can accumulate.
I'm not saying he's gold glove caliber, but he's above average and far more dependable than Motter. And fwiw, in 2019 DeJong was worth 3.1 dWAR. Edman was worth 2.8 dWAR last season.
ok, fair enough. i just don't see a shortstop when i watch him play. just me.
the metrics dont match my eye, but i'm probably wrong. i see lack of range, a strong arm,
a player that benfitted by the shift where range isn't as important.
the national
- the Front Range
I keep hearing this. I don’t want to think it’s really a possibility, get my hope up, until the trade ink has dried. We could use him.
I was referring to previous seasons such as 2019.
Bigtex
- DFW
i understand the DeJong discussion but compared to the bullpen performance it doesn't really matter who is playing SS. Don't have answers but something has to change. Need a LH bat with some pop in the middle of the lineup to break up all of the RH bats. Hopefully Gorman is the answer
From down in Texas don't get a feel if Marmol seat is getting warm but based on highlights, boxscores and results - I am sure there are some qusestioning if he is the right guy.
From down in Texas don't get a feel if Marmol seat is getting warm but based on highlights, boxscores and results - I am sure there are some qusestioning if he is the right guy.
DeJong is a SS
Can he play other positions in a spot start? Yes. Out of necessity he could play 2B/3B but we have a ton of utility players that cover those positions already.
So far Edman in 2019 was his highest batting average and on base percentage season. They were trying to get him at bats and was the first utillity guy off the bench. He played a ton of 2B/SS in college as well. One thing few might not remember is Edman played some OF in 2019 as well. One of those experiments the Cardinals do from time to time and not much experience at it before trying it in the majors.
Gorman would be a good 3B. Having Arenado you have to shuffle the pieces around and hope Gorman can keep improving at 2B. Otherwise the platoon continues and he will DH just as much.
Understandable
Angels won't make playoff spot, Cardinals are struggling and have the pieces to land Ohtani
I have mentioned he is the only player that I would trade almost any prospect for him. At least with Ohtani you know he is legit and would have 3 Franchise Players on one roster and finally have that ace pitcher
Cardinals have made a ton of trades where prospects did/didn't pan out. You never know what prospects will do but when we landed Ozuna it ended up costing us not one but two future #1 starting pitchers.
Dee_4_Three_83
- Mahomet, IL
I would make that trade in a heartbeat...but only if we can get him for 4+ years. Can't just give up the farm for one chance at it.
Well that isn't an option....he will cost a ton for this year alone. If there was a sign and trade available you and I would be playing in the farm system because it would be emptied out
I'm almost certain the guy who posted this is joking.
Ohtani is going to command a salary like nothing that's been seen before. DeWitt ain't paying that much for anyone. And more importantly, everything I've read about Ohtani indicates he wants to win. He wants to win now. He wants to win tomorrow. He wants to win yesterday. I think that'd be a hard sell for a club that hasn't won a playoff game since 2019 and has seen it's payroll relative to the rest of the league plummet from #6 in 2019 to #16 in 2023.
Dee_4_Three_83
- Mahomet, IL
I think it would be more likely for Cards to go after "cheaper" options. If they want to make a run for a few years, putting up the money for Bieber and another big bat via trade seems more likely to me. Then you would have a championship window that opens for a couple years. Which may happen anyway if Walker pans out.Well that isn't an option....he will cost a ton for this year alone. If there was a sign and trade available you and I would be playing in the farm system because it would be emptied out
Totally agree. If past history holds true,the DeWitts are not going to pay the money it would take to sign him. They are first and foremost businessmen, and they keep an eye on the bottom line. I have also read that Ohtani wants to stay on the coast. The Dodgers seem to be a reasonable destination. A trade, in my opinion is not an option.
The only way we land Ohtani is through trade...not landing him in free agency. Not saying it is likely at all but entertaining the idea is worth it at least. Intrigued to see what comes out of the Bally Sports deal for future years and what it means to payroll possibly.
I have nothing against the Angels but it baffles me how they have Ohtani and Trout for years and couldn't muster up any pieces around them. We might be frustrated fans at times but have at least put a competitive team on the field for years.
I have mentioned a few times on here but there is a reason the Dodgers dipped below the tax threshold this past offseason...reset and hope to land the grand prize. Angels hope he will stay but otherwise likely Dodgers or 3rd option Mets since they will put an offer out if he is available.
A few on here mention the payroll. Part of it is some bad contracts given out by management. Cardinals are typically in the 5-15 range for payroll and unfortunately some guys don't pan out or get injured.
I have nothing against the Angels but it baffles me how they have Ohtani and Trout for years and couldn't muster up any pieces around them. We might be frustrated fans at times but have at least put a competitive team on the field for years.
I have mentioned a few times on here but there is a reason the Dodgers dipped below the tax threshold this past offseason...reset and hope to land the grand prize. Angels hope he will stay but otherwise likely Dodgers or 3rd option Mets since they will put an offer out if he is available.
A few on here mention the payroll. Part of it is some bad contracts given out by management. Cardinals are typically in the 5-15 range for payroll and unfortunately some guys don't pan out or get injured.
Every team has bad contracts on the books.
Cardinals have historically not been the biggest spenders but have typically been in the second tier. And a lot of those years the 1st tier consisted of only the Yankees.
The trendline is bad. #6 in 2019. #10 in 2020. #11 in 2021, #13 in 2022, #16 in 2023. This year we are below league average in payroll. When's the last time that happened? We're not in the second tier anymore. That's where teams like the Braves, Astros and Blue Jays reside. Those teams are spending $30-40MM more than us.
This season is the furthest from the top spenders the Cardinals have been in since probably the 90s. Those were some bad Cardinals teams in the 90s. That's when I became a fan. Those teams were so bad back then that they'd give away tickets to kids through their local library for reading books over the summer. That's how I went to my first dozen or so Cards games. DeWitt bought the team around that time and started investing. It was great. Payroll went up from the low 20s to mid teens of the early 90s to eventually consistently in that "contenders who aren't the Yankees" tier. Then DeWitt won a couple WS titles and seemed to lose that fire. Now he's all about maximizing profit.
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