Chicago Bears 2023-2024

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#551      
Roundball Sage
Emerson Bigguns said:
Bagent is going to stick in the league for a long time as a backup, but he’s not a “plan A” talent.
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I agree. He's cut from the 'Game Manager' kind of cloth. But it's the way the team seems to respond to him on the field that catches the eye in contrast to Fields. I don't know if Fields simply remains unsure of himself out there or that he just lacks confidence... but there's something unsteady about how he approaches the position on the field and his teammates.

The fact that he played at 'TTHHHEEEE...' might have something to do with this. He had elite talent all around him so Fields didn't have to carry the burden all by himself. But on the Bears people see him as having to the 'The Guy' who needs to do way more... and he doesn't have the same number and level of elite talents around him. So in a sense, playing College Ball where he did may have gotten him used to something that wasn't going to last and he hasn't adapted.
 
#552      
Illiniaaron
Listening to Fluss talk about how Fields is out and Bagent starting tomorrow, yet Fields is still classified as “doubtful” and it depends on how much he progresses before game time tomorrow night, was priceless.
 
#553      
KingWolf11
Illiniaaron said:
Listening to Fluss talk about how Fields is out and Bagent starting tomorrow, yet Fields is still classified as “doubtful” and it depends on how much he progresses before game time tomorrow night, was priceless.
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Fields has had the guy that is somehow making the Chiefs offense look horrible and the defensive version of Marc Trestman as his two head coaches. I want him to remain Bears qb but I can't wait for him to go elsewhere and kill it.
 
#554      
EyeoftheIllini
Roundball Sage said:
Some sports analysts and Bear fans are mesmerized by Fields athletic ability. And there is no doubt that he has some. But Fields has just not shown himself to be a good field leader who inspires confidence and steadiness in his team.

Bagent does not have the physical tools of Fields. But already in his short stint at QB starter... he has in fact brought a steadier leadership ability than Fields has shown in a longer sample size. Yes, the turnovers by Bagent are too many. But remember that this guy just became an NFL starter and defenses are throwing all kind of pressure on him. It’s too soon to write Bagent off as too turnover prone.

Bagent may yet have more real upside in his overall game than Fields. We just don't know yet.
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I’m curious as to why you think or your “proof” that Bagent has brought a steadier leadership and inspired more confidence by his teammates than Fields. I haven’t read any comments in the press from players regarding that, but maybe I missed them. So is this something you believe you’ve perceived while watching games?

One thing I don’t think I’ve seen mentioned much during Bagent’s nice start over his first 2 games is that teams didn’t have a book on him and Bears were able to run a somewhat simplified offense. Now that there is tape in Bagent and offensive tendencies with him in there, we’ve seen less efficiency and 5 TOs in last 2 games.

I’m not a huge Fields fan, but I want to see him do well because I feel the ceiling for team is much higher with him playing well than it is with Bagent in there. But if Bears don’t think Fields can get there, then I think they need to move on and get a new QB not rely on Bagent as a long-term starter. Having seen Bagent now play some games that matter, he looks to me like a quality backup/spot starter, which is a valuable thing to have. He does not look like a high level QB1, which except for rare cases is what is needed to win in the NFL.
 
#555      
jjv0004
Who do we want to win on Sunday? Bears or Panthers? I would prefer Panthers lose out so the Bears get the number 1 pick but I also want the Bears to end up with the other pick on the top 3 so they have choice to take Marvin Harrison. My hope is that get the number 1 pick and trade it for multiple picks and still get 2 or 3 so can take Harrison and then take stud o-tackle or rush d-end with 2nd 1st round pick would get from trading pick #1.
 
#556      
Illwinsagain
jjv0004 said:
Who do we want to win on Sunday? Bears or Panthers? I would prefer Panthers lose out so the Bears get the number 1 pick but I also want the Bears to end up with the other pick on the top 3 so they have choice to take Marvin Harrison. My hope is that get the number 1 pick and trade it for multiple picks and still get 2 or 3 so can take Harrison and then take stud o-tackle or rush d-end with 2nd 1st round pick would get from trading pick #1.
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The game is tonight, and I am looking for the Bears to win, like you said, to help Carolina lose out.
 
#557      
EyeoftheIllini
jjv0004 said:
Who do we want to win on Sunday? Bears or Panthers? I would prefer Panthers lose out so the Bears get the number 1 pick but I also want the Bears to end up with the other pick on the top 3 so they have choice to take Marvin Harrison. My hope is that get the number 1 pick and trade it for multiple picks and still get 2 or 3 so can take Harrison and then take stud o-tackle or rush d-end with 2nd 1st round pick would get from trading pick #1.
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Bears to win. The Carolina pick is likely our only chance at #1 pick. With injuries at the QB position on other teams, it’s just too hard to figure out where Bears pick will fall. Right now 3 to 10 seems the most likely range. Given Bears SOS, hopefully don’t fall lower than 6 or 7.
 
#558      
Roundball Sage
EyeoftheIllini said:
I’m curious as to why you think or your “proof” that Bagent has brought a steadier leadership and inspired more confidence by his teammates than Fields. I haven’t read any comments in the press from players regarding that, but maybe I missed them. So is this something you believe you’ve perceived while watching games?
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Yes, it’s something I get off the players conduct on the field. Whether they got this way from all the practice reps or it’s something they have developed from Bagent’s on-field demeanor... Bears players seem more focused and less rattled with him at QB. With Fields they know he is unpredictable and also seems to lack confidence at the QB position. He wants desperately to succeed there... but often he seems like he’s trying too hard. He doesn’t feel confident even though he tries hard to do so. He knows how much Bear fans expect of him and that kind of pressure on him is not something he's been used to. In college he had lots of big talent around to take that burden off him personally.

EyeoftheIllini said:
One thing I don’t think I’ve seen mentioned much during Bagent’s nice start over his first 2 games is that teams didn’t have a book on him and Bears were able to run a somewhat simplified offense. Now that there is tape in Bagent and offensive tendencies with him in there, we’ve seen less efficiency and 5 TOs in last 2 games.
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You are correct. The Bears game plan needs to adapt. But the Bears coaching leadership right now seems in disarray and the team knows they play for a coach who is on his way out. So both Fields and Bagent are lacking the kind of leadership they need right now.

Whatever happens... it's gonna be tough for either QB to be successful the rest of the way. The Bears organization is a mess and that is going to reflect itself on the field.
 
#559      
Illwinsagain
Was it just me, or Sunday in the first half, Bagent seemed to be more comfortable when he was also running. 60 yards in the first half, 10 in the second. It seemed like he was just sitting in the pocket in the second half. That's like ringing the dinner bell for d-linemen.
 
#560      
Emerson Bigguns
Roundball Sage said:
Yes, it’s something I get off the players conduct on the field. Whether they got this way from all the practice reps or it’s something they have developed from Bagent’s on-field demeanor... Bears players seem more focused and less rattled with him at QB. With Fields they know he is unpredictable and also seems to lack confidence at the QB position. He wants desperately to succeed there... but often he seems like he’s trying too hard. He doesn’t feel confident even though he tries hard to do so. He knows how much Bear fans expect of him and that kind of pressure on him is not something he's been used to. In college he had lots of big talent around to take that burden off him personally.



You are correct. The Bears game plan needs to adapt. But the Bears coaching leadership right now seems in disarray and the team knows they play for a coach who is on his way out. So both Fields and Bagent are lacking the kind of leadership they need right now.

Whatever happens... it's gonna be tough for either QB to be successful the rest of the way. The Bears organization is a mess and that is going to reflect itself on the field.
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The playbook has been substantially simplified for Tyson. I assume that makes it easier for everyone to know exactly what they are doing from play to play. If it's easier for Tyson to digest, it's easier for everyone else too.

The running game has also improved a lot since Bagent took over. I tend to put that more on the offensive line playing better. (Especially the return of Teven Jenkins) Prior to his becoming active the Baers averaged 119 rushing yards a game. Since he's been back it's been 148. The defense has also been better the last few weeks.

Bagent has not solved the turnover issue. In fact, he has the same number of INTs and one fewer fumble in half as many games. Fields had two of the best games of his career right before going down. I just can't imagine anyone in that locker room believes they are a better team with Bagent under center. I like Bagent. He's a solid backup. Honestly, his Chicago Bears career will probably be longer than Justin's at this point, but if I'm the Gm and/or HC I'm seeing if the Fields we saw against the Broncos and Commanders is the guy coming back. If so, there is no question.

Justin simply takes too many sacks. If he can clean that up, no one will remember Bagent is on the team.
 
#561      
EyeoftheIllini
Roundball Sage said:
Yes, it’s something I get off the players conduct on the field. Whether they got this way from all the practice reps or it’s something they have developed from Bagent’s on-field demeanor... Bears players seem more focused and less rattled with him at QB. With Fields they know he is unpredictable and also seems to lack confidence at the QB position. He wants desperately to succeed there... but often he seems like he’s trying too hard. He doesn’t feel confident even though he tries hard to do so. He knows how much Bear fans expect of him and that kind of pressure on him is not something he's been used to. In college he had lots of big talent around to take that burden off him personally.



You are correct. The Bears game plan needs to adapt. But the Bears coaching leadership right now seems in disarray and the team knows they play for a coach who is on his way out. So both Fields and Bagent are lacking the kind of leadership they need right now.

Whatever happens... it's gonna be tough for either QB to be successful the rest of the way. The Bears organization is a mess and that is going to reflect itself on the field.
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With all due respect, it doesn’t seem you’re much of a fan of Fields and I think that could be playing into the perception. That said, the Bears did look confident against the Raiders, but I think that was much more about them being better and able to exert their will on the Raiders than Bagent at QB. Amazing what a stout run game and forcing 3 turnovers can do for a team’s confidence. The subsequent two games I saw nothing discernible different in the team’s demeanor. I would hope that the Bear’s show a confidence tonight as they are the better team. Carolina be near the bottom in rush defense should allow the Bears to get the ground game going and let Bagent just be a game manager.
 
#563      
Roundball Sage
EyeoftheIllini said:
With all due respect, it doesn’t seem you’re much of a fan of Fields and I think that could be playing into the perception.
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I have nothing against Fields personally. I know he has ability or he would never have been the QB where he went to college. But players like Fields have been in the NFL before – guys that were good-to-great college QBs but whose talents were actually better suited to another position in the NFL. Many of these kind of QBs always resist changing positions even though it would help their careers in the long run.

He’s certainly better right now than many NFL QBs. But can any Bears fan say with confidence that he IS THE GUY for the Bears in the future? Privately, I don’t think even Bears management is convinced of that.

He seems like a nice guy and you can tell he’s trying hard to succeed. But that’s just it. The right guy doesn’t have to try that hard... he just is that guy.

The question is... how long do the Bears wait? And what is really going on with this health and the weird statements the Bears are making about his game status?

Honestly, if he wants to stay at QB it might be better with a new team where he would feel less pressure than he has in Chicago. While not exactly the same situation, has anyone noticed how both he and the Sox Tim Anderson's careers both started going sideways about the same time?
 
#564      
EyeoftheIllini
Roundball Sage said:
I have nothing against Fields personally. I know he has ability or he would never have been the QB where he went to college. But players like Fields have been in the NFL before – guys that were good-to-great college QBs but whose talents were actually better suited to another position in the NFL. Many of these kind of QBs always resist changing positions even though it would help their careers in the long run.

He’s certainly better right now than many NFL QBs. But can any Bears fan say with confidence that he IS THE GUY for the Bears in the future? Privately, I don’t think even Bears management is convinced of that.

He seems like a nice guy and you can tell he’s trying hard to succeed. But that’s just it. The right guy doesn’t have to try that hard... he just is that guy.

The question is... how long do the Bears wait? And what is really going on with this health and the weird statements the Bears are making about his game status?

Honestly, if he wants to stay at QB it might be better with a new team where he would feel less pressure than he has in Chicago. While not exactly the same situation, has anyone noticed how both he and the Sox Tim Anderson's careers both started going sideways about the same time?
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I think you know I wasn’t saying you had something against Fields personally, and I’m not going to argue against anything you said in the above post. I was pushing back on your earlier statement that Bagent has shown better leadership ability than Fields and thus inspires more confidence and steadiness in his team. I haven’t seen that change in the team other than against the LVR who was playing so poorly that I believe they fired their coach soon after. Do I think Fields has gotten the job done? No. Do I have confidence he will? No. But does Bagent have some leadership and confidence elixir that inspires the team more? Again no.
 
#567      
Roundball Sage
EyeoftheIllini said:
I was pushing back on your earlier statement that Bagent has shown better leadership ability than Fields and thus inspires more confidence and steadiness in his team.
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Here’s another way to look at this ‘leadership’ and ‘steadiness’ issue.

Fields comes in as a really high draft choice with high expectations from a glamourous college program. But so far these high hopes have not translated itself to the Bears playing up to the level of the high expectations for Fields. So in that sense, he has not ‘lead’ the Bears to what they hoped to get (and yes, that all isn’t his fault).

Bagent comes in with NO expectations (except maybe his own) from a smaller and much-less-glamous school. And hardly a Bear fan can honestly say they expected anything from him before he made his first appearance. And yet he becomes an undrafted player from the Division II level that starts an NFL game for the first time in over 60 years. And looks decent in doing that.

Bagent having so small a sample size it’s tough to draw any permanent conclusions. While Fields has had much bigger sample size to show what he's got.

So... who is the better leader? A high draft choice who has not matched the hype? Or a guy that no one expected anything from and yet the team seemed to respond to him right away?

All of this will settle out over time. Fields will either get back in there and justify (or not) his staying with the Bears. And Bagent will see if he does have any long term career future in the League.

And honestly, there’s a chance that neither of these guys will be on the Bears for the long term. But both of them could still find a spot somewhere.
 
#570      
logjam
Lets Go GIF by The Roku Channel
 
#573      
Illiniaaron
IlliniFaninHoosierLand said:
No need to at this point. If it was the 4th quarter, I'd see the argument for it.
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Usually I wouldn’t until the fourth either. But the way this game is going I think it’s more likely that Carolina might get a drive for a td rather than multiple field goal drives, or bust a play like the punt return for a td like they did earlier.
 
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