Pregame: Illinois vs Wisconsin, Tuesday, January 31st, 8:00pm CT, BTN

Calvin · Jan 31, 2017

Adnarel said:
Most definitely. My least favorite part about Weber's last season was when he started throwing these young men who were obviously crushed under the bus to crush them further. It was gruesome, and created a negative feedback loop that accelerated the collapse. I'll take an idiotic ladder gimmick over that any day.

+1

The coach needs to be a counter-balance --don't let the team get down when it's going bad, and don't let them start patting themselves on the back when they're winning.

I also think that in the current era of bball, you have to be very careful calling anyone out. With the right relationship, some guys will respond to that, but there's so much media coverage, it's much safer and easier to keep player feedback limited to practice where it won't spiral out of control or morph into something unintended.

mattcoldagelli · Jan 31, 2017

OrangeKrus28 said:
Don't get me wrong, Weber took it too far when he started throwing his players under the bus, but he also began to throw himself under the bus. He indicated that he had failed in coddling the players and worrying about the outside and what the outside was thinking rather than putting his own foot down and doing things he felt like had to be done. He did hold himself accountable just as much as the kids.

I don't see that with coach Groce right now. I don't think I have once heard him hold himself or his coaching staff accountable. I don't think I've heard him saying a negative word about himself or his coaching staff. Maybe he wants to save face but without naming names, he was holding his players accountable for their failures in non-conference season, so let's not forget about that.

Yes, that slow-motion public meltdown that Weber had really made everything better. Let's return to that.

Bear8287 · Jan 31, 2017

Bear8287 said:
Man, I can't wait for this guy to be gone...

Watching film, wasn't as bad as I thought... Seriously? The first half was so bad (down by 20 at the half), that most Illini fans would consider it pure torture to have to watch that half again. wasn't as bad as I thought, yeah it was a freaking lot worse than that.

Defended a little better? The Illini's second half defense is what got the team back into the game. He couldn't even tell the difference between a little better and a lot better? Sure would explain a lot about why the Illini play defense like they do then.

Played a lot of games together. The latest Groce excuse, sure we've got a lot of experienced guys, but they haven't played a lot of games together. It most baffle the $#!+ out of him how 3 freshmen could start at Maryland and total school his team (they probably played a lot of high school games together, yeah that must be it).

More focused about making less mistakes overall... Yeah, I like to have our guys focused on not doing the negative things. Every time I hear a coach say something like that, I wonder why the AD doesn't just hand him his walking papers right then and there. [With Weber it was his "playing not to lose" comment.]

So long Coach Groce. Be sure to apologize to Malcolm Hill on your way out though...

mattcoldagelli said:
I don't know how anybody gets worked up about this stuff. What do you want him to say at these? That's a direct question - what would you suggest he say instead?

Not too worked up, but trying not to be too apathetic either.

Since you asked:

1) To the "wasn't as bad as I thought" and "defended a little better" remarks how about,
"There are no excuses for the most experienced team in the B1G to be giving up 45 points in one half to the second least experienced and second statistically worst offensive team in the conference. We came out in the second half and held them to 26 points. We need to play like that for a full 40 minutes each game. This team came out for the fifth straight time for a conference road game unprepared to play and that's on me and the coaching staff. This is a results oriented business and we're not getting it done and that needs to change fast. There's still a lot of basketball left to play in this season."

2) Played a lot of games together. Just stop. This doesn't even need to be mentioned. See above. There are no excuses.

3) More focused about making less mistakes overall. This one shouldn't even need an explanation. When Mike Thorne steps to the line, should Coach Groce shout out, "Hey Thorne, don't miss that free throw!"? How about saying something like,
"We came out in second half with a lot better mindset and focus. Played much better as a team on defense. Showed some real toughness and togetherness. Showed that we can play much better than we did in the first half. Again, we need to be playing like that for two halves of a game. We're going to come out and play 40 minutes of focused basketball in our next game and get this thing going in the right direction."

So, back at ya. How do you think those responses stack up against what Coach Groce had to say?

Time for him to go...

Bear8287 · Jan 31, 2017

Watching film, wasn't as bad as I thought... :hurl:

mattcoldagelli · Jan 31, 2017

Bear8287 said:
So, back at ya. How do you think those responses stack up against what Coach Groce had to say?

If Groce was having a secret conference call with angry message board posters, maybe that'd be some great stuff. As it is, I'm not sure what purpose it serves to be taking shots at a PSU team that just beat us. (Your second proposed answer is just a slightly different flavor of coachspeak, so...great, I guess?)

Ultimately, these last 10 minutes are more than I've thought about postgame press conferences than the entire season combined. I wouldn't care if our coach pulled a Belichick on these.

OrangeKrus28 · Jan 31, 2017

mattcoldagelli said:
Yes. And frankly, that's all it should ever be. So why do you care?

His words no longer hold any water. It is one of the reasons why the fanbase has completely turned on him this year. He got a reprieve the last 2 seasons due to injuries where it was about a 50/50 split on whether to retain him or not. But, this year is completely different. When he uses slogans and phrases but his teams don't show toughness, togetherness, controlling what they can control, and all the other stuff he says, these "coach-speak" terms become just a bunch of empty words.

WesterveltVictoryCigar · Jan 31, 2017

OrangeKrus28 said:
these "coach-speak" terms become just a bunch of empty words.

coach-speak by definition is empty words.

mattcoldagelli · Jan 31, 2017

OrangeKrus28 said:
It is one of the reasons why the fanbase has completely turned on him this year.

It absolutely is not.

miggytorres · Jan 31, 2017

I don't care what Groce says in pressers. I do care that his teams have missed the tournament every year after year #1. I also care that the conduct of various players has been substandard off the court. At least there have been no further incidents after the summer of 2016......

t7nich · Jan 31, 2017

I like watching Koenig play, kid is everything you would want in a PG.

Wiscy’s guard play is head and shoulders above ours at this point in time. That will be the difference in this game.

I predict a double digit win by the rodents.

LurkLongandProsper · Jan 31, 2017

mattcoldagelli said:
It absolutely is not.

miggytorres said:
I don't care what Groce says in pressers. I do care that his teams have missed the tournament every year after year #1. I also care that the conduct of various players has been substandard off the court. At least there have been no further incidents after the summer of 2016......

^^This

Anyone over-analyzing the pressers is completely missing the point. The pressers are fine, there are likely things we all wish he'd say differently or address, but pressers are pressers. Coaches are going through the motions, players and coaches don't want to be there (I don't blame them), and it's mostly just statements built ad lib style with a word bank of coaching phrases. They are insignificant to what matters (on the court performance) and really, I could do without them entirely, they don't matter at all. There are things that need to be fixed in the back half of this season if Groce wants to be here next season. Pressers are not one of them.

IlliniInOK · Jan 31, 2017

mattcoldagelli said:
It absolutely is not.

OrangeKrus28 said:
Well, let us know why you feel that coach Groce deserves to retain his job then? .

*checks 2017 Coaching Carousel thread*
*sees thread was started by mattcoldagelli*
*scratches head*

CoalCity · Jan 31, 2017

t7nich said:
I like watching Koenig play, kid is everything you would want in a PG.

Wiscy’s guard play is head and shoulders above ours at this point in time. That will be the difference in this game.

I predict a double digit win by the rodents.

Rodents? Are we playing Minnesota?

WesterveltVictoryCigar · Jan 31, 2017

OrangeKrus28 said:
Haha, that is my bad then. But to be fair, that thread did not begin as a fire Groce thread. It began as a thread about where there would be openings across the country.

You may want to check the date on the initial post in that thread and then revise this opinion.

LurkLongandProsper · Jan 31, 2017

Bear8287 said:
What alternate reality are you living in?

Nobody turned on Groce because of the pressers. They're the same as they've always been.

OrangeKrus28 said:
Haha, that is my bad then. But to be fair, that thread did not begin as a fire Groce thread. It began as a thread about where there would be openings across the country.

Nope

ejam21 · Jan 31, 2017

Hope4better said:
They have no answer for Happ, he should have his way

Last year, without thorne (so mav/finke), we held happ to 6 points in champaign...

He did have his way with mav/finke in game 2 in madision (going for 20)

Hoping mav/finke/thorne/black can combine on d to hold him more towards his last year Champaign performance.

LurkLongandProsper · Jan 31, 2017

ejam21 said:
Last year, without thorne (so mav/finke), we held happ to 6 points in champaign...

He did have his way with mav/finke in game 2 in madision (going for 20)

Hoping mav/finke/thorne/black can combine on d to hold him more towards his last year Champaign performance.

Happ is scoring an additional 5 points per 40 minutes this year, he's become a better scorer than he was, and shooting better percentages to boot. 14.5 ppg in 26 minutes on 60% shooting, what a find by Bo Ryan.

Really good player, he'll do some damage tonight. Worth noting that he only has 5 games this year with single digit points, and 4 were in the non-con (season low 6 against tOSU).

Game Logs this year

The Dave · Jan 31, 2017

LurkLongandProsper said:
...what a find by Bo Ryan.

Is it a "find" by Ryan or is it scouting and the development of players? Something our coach seems unable to do.

I think of the Badgers as being like the Bob Knight Indiana teams. They never brought in top-10 recruiting classes and never had players that were NBA superstars (except for Isaiah Thomas...Calbert Chaney was a decent NBA player).

He found players that fit his system, coached them up something fierce, and build a consistent winning program. Bo Ryan (and now Guard) are doing the same thing. It's the difference between being a great coach and being a great recruiter.

BlindLoyalty · Jan 31, 2017

This season, Ethan Happ is the best the Big Ten has to offer. In B10 play, he is the only player to lead team in Pts, Reb, Ast, St, Blk. Currently, the Big Ten Player of the Year is a two way race between Happ and Swanigan.

WesterveltVictoryCigar · Jan 31, 2017

The Dave said:
Is it a "find" by Ryan or is it scouting and the development of players? Something our coach seems unable to do.

I think of the Badgers as being like the Bob Knight Indiana teams. They never brought in top-10 recruiting classes and never had players that were NBA superstars (except for Isaiah Thomas...Calbert Chaney was a decent NBA player).

He found players that fit his system, coached them up something fierce, and build a consistent winning program. Bo Ryan (and now Guard) are doing the same thing. It's the difference between being a great coach and being a great recruiter.

That's a bit of a myth for both Knight and Ryan, they got plenty of talent. Not that they didn't also excel at development, but it's not like they were fielding teams full of 2 star kids.

Second and Chalmers · Jan 31, 2017

The Dave said:
Is it a "find" by Ryan or is it scouting

:faint:

LurkLongandProsper · Jan 31, 2017

The Dave said:
Is it a "find" by Ryan or is it scouting and the development of players? Something our coach seems unable to do.

Well, he averaged 12 and 8 with 2 steals as a bonus as a true freshman big, who was a 3* recruit, so I'd say that's a find.

Bear8287 said:
If you look at the original quote, it was "one of the reasons" not "the only reason".

Do you mean to imply that his pressers are good enough that they aren't contributing towards the fanbase's growing negative sentiments towards him being the coach of the Illini? If so, I'd like to see that argument. Please tell us how his pressers are helping him as the head coach of the team.

These pressers are the same as they were in year 1. People turned on him, and started nitpicking his pressers, because the team has been bad. It's as simple as that. Pressers will not be the reason Groce got fired/retained, or the reason the fans turned on him. The wins/losses are.

BlindLoyalty · Jan 31, 2017

LurkLongandProsper said:
Well, he averaged 12 and 8 with 2 steals as a bonus as a true freshman big, who was a 3* recruit, so I'd say that's a find.

Happ was a redshirt fr, that spent his redshirt year developing his skills vs. the consensus national player of the year and future #9 draft pick.

mattcoldagelli · Jan 31, 2017

Bear8287 said:
Do you mean to imply that his pressers are good enough that they aren't contributing towards the fanbase's growing negative sentiments towards him being the coach of the Illini? If so, I'd like to see that argument. Please tell us how his pressers are helping him as the head coach of the team.

Yes, I will make that argument. I want to meet the person for whom "post game press conferences" cracks even the top 15 reasons they are dissatisfied with Groce.

It's like standing on a sinking Titanic and hassling a passing crewman about how your soup spoon had some tarnish on it.

LurkLongandProsper · Jan 31, 2017

BlindLoyalty said:
Happ was a redshirt fr, that spent his redshirt year developing his skills vs. the consensus national player of the year and future #9 draft pick.

Ah, did he redshirt? My mistake there. That said, some of the more defining elements of his game are still things you just don't teach (an example being the #HappSteal to borrow the term from @bigtengeeks)