Illini Basketball 2021-2022

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#26      
logjam
ElGran said:
Not sure either of us can prove either way. All I know is our program tends to be very generous with listed heights. If we're listed him at 6'10, I'm thinking that's a max for him.

I think once in a while Dads go a bit overboard in touting their kids.
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Jeez...let's go with 6 -10.5
 
#27      
Champaign Toast
Kofi adds new skills all the time. The midrange jumper is cool. At the start of the season, he showed off a solid pass--when he got double-teamed in the post-- that led to some really great ball movement sequences. I feel that he's not passed out of the double team so much recently. (He has used a pass fake effectively in the post to preserve space for himself.) I wonder why that is. Are the probable outcomes better when he keeps the ball and attacks in traffic than when he moves the ball to an open player on the perimeter?
 
#28      
BretMyBeachHouse
illini80 said:
I going from memory here, so I’m probably not very accurate, but their total budget is ballpark 3-4 times ours (maybe thats football?), so when the money stops coming in, the losses mount fast. I’m making my point poorly I know. I’m just saying it’s not directly comparable for the schools at the top to our situation.
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Not sure I'll do any better, but I think you're on the right track. The lower tier programs have revenues that are probably more highly weighted toward television, which probably didn't take the hit that attendance did.

Michigan's football tickets are at least twice our price, I imagine. Their attendance more than double. Same with OSU.

I can't explain Iowa. Other than they suck and they're stupid.
 
#29      
the national
Champaign Toast said:
Kofi adds new skills all the time. The midrange jumper is cool. At the start of the season, he showed off a solid pass--when he got double-teamed in the post-- that led to some really great ball movement sequences. I feel that he's not passed out of the double team so much recently. (He has used a pass fake effectively in the post to preserve space for himself.) I wonder why that is. Are the probable outcomes better when he keeps the ball and attacks in traffic than when he moves the ball to an open player on the perimeter?
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Shooters have been open less and less. People are picking their poison and locking down the three point line for us. Theoretically, Kofi should be able to get more takes but it hasn’t felt that way. Not sure if they aren’t getting it to him or he’s not finishing (or both). In those two games he was out, we really missed the inside-outside game. Hopefully we can get more of the pop-outs to Plummer/Frazier/Grandison in February.
 
#30      
alaskaillini
the national said:
Shooters have been open less and less. People are picking their poison and locking down the three point line for us. Theoretically, Kofi should be able to get more takes but it hasn’t felt that way. Not sure if they aren’t getting it to him or he’s not finishing (or both). In those two games he was out, we really missed the inside-outside game. Hopefully we can get more of the pop-outs to Plummer/Frazier/Grandison in February.
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This is hopefully what Curbelo fixes for us. He will have a lot of room to maneuver if they try to over-defend the 3 point line.
 
#31      
Chad Fleck
The difference between Hawkins and Melenedez driving with the ball is stark. There may be more to it, but it appears to be a difference in confidence.
 
#32      
IllinoisssssssVarsity
Champaign Toast said:
Kofi adds new skills all the time. The midrange jumper is cool. At the start of the season, he showed off a solid pass--when he got double-teamed in the post-- that led to some really great ball movement sequences. I feel that he's not passed out of the double team so much recently. (He has used a pass fake effectively in the post to preserve space for himself.) I wonder why that is. Are the probable outcomes better when he keeps the ball and attacks in traffic than when he moves the ball to an open player on the perimeter?
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I’m sure it’s based on scout, where the help comes from, etc. But just from a psychological standpoint, mixing it up makes you harder to guard because the defense can’t key on one action. If you keep them guessing, they’ll constantly be reacting, which, in theory, can slow them down just enough to give us an advantage.
 
#33      
illini80
Champaign Toast said:
Kofi adds new skills all the time. The midrange jumper is cool. At the start of the season, he showed off a solid pass--when he got double-teamed in the post-- that led to some really great ball movement sequences. I feel that he's not passed out of the double team so much recently. (He has used a pass fake effectively in the post to preserve space for himself.) I wonder why that is. Are the probable outcomes better when he keeps the ball and attacks in traffic than when he moves the ball to an open player on the perimeter?
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Against NW, I felt like our shooters weren’t getting to the right spots. They were often standing and watching Kofi which allowed their defenders to sink in giving Kofi less room to work and poor angles to pass back out.
 
#34      
Chad Fleck
illini80 said:
Against NW, I felt like our shooters weren’t getting to the right spots. They were often standing and watching Kofi which allowed their defenders to sink in giving Kofi less room to work and poor angles to pass back out.
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Right. I didn't necessarily notice that, but in general....shooters have to move and get into a spot where Kofi can easily see them. It triggers a natural response to a good basketball player when a teammate moves to a clear eye line.
 
#35      
ElGran
Chad Fleck said:
The difference between Hawkins and Melenedez driving with the ball is stark. There may be more to it, but it appears to be a difference in confidence.
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I pointed this out before and Melendez is the counterpoint to Hawkins. When RJ puts the ball on the floor, he seems to have a good sense of what he wants to do. When Hawkins puts the ball on the floor, it's without purpose.

Like others, I like Hawkins' potential and hope he stays. His weaknesses are things that can be improved with practice.
 
#36      
frozenrope9190
the national said:
Shooters have been open less and less. People are picking their poison and locking down the three point line for us. Theoretically, Kofi should be able to get more takes but it hasn’t felt that way. Not sure if they aren’t getting it to him or he’s not finishing (or both). In those two games he was out, we really missed the inside-outside game. Hopefully we can get more of the pop-outs to Plummer/Frazier/Grandison in February.
Click to expand...
What I've noticed, and it seemed to have started at the Nebraska game, was that Kofi will have a single man on him when he gets the ball, and the second he puts the ball to the floor to dribble, THEN he gets the double (or triple) team. The defenders will guard the perimeter to stop Plummer and Frazier and Grandison from getting the open 3 but will sag off them at just the point where Kofi has the ball in dribbling mode. So he has less visibility as to what to do next. Sometimes he'll just power through it and lay it in. Sometimes he'll pass out. But it seems to be more difficult for him than earlier in the season.

Where Curbelo will help, I hope, is that he'll get the ball down to Kofi in a better position where he doesn't have to dribble down the paint to the basket as much. The lower down the paint the entry pass comes from, the easier it is for Kofi to just lay it in or dunk. Curbelo's passing and dribbling ability can free that clog up. That's what I've been waiting for since the beginning of the season, and I hope it will be in abundance these last 10 games.
 
#37      
KevinC
ElGran said:
I pointed this out before and Melendez is the counterpoint to Hawkins. When RJ puts the ball on the floor, he seems to have a good sense of what he wants to do. When Hawkins puts the ball on the floor, it's without purpose.

Like others, I like Hawkins' potential and hope he stays. His weaknesses are things that can be improved with practice.
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BU gives players different roles. He is also, not a fan of pull-up jumpers. He doesn't mind floaters but, has stated that he wants a 3 pt shot or taking the ball all the way to the basket. Ayo was too good to bench for doing that. I think that Hawk worries about BU's reaction if he takes a pull-up J. There are a number of stars in the NBA that the mid-range jumper is the reason that they are playing at that level. It may not be the most efficient mode of shooting but, it is huge when a team just needs a basket.
 
#38      
KevinC
frozenrope9190 said:
What I've noticed, and it seemed to have started at the Nebraska game, was that Kofi will have a single man on him when he gets the ball, and the second he puts the ball to the floor to dribble, THEN he gets the double (or triple) team. The defenders will guard the perimeter to stop Plummer and Frazier and Grandison from getting the open 3 but will sag off them at just the point where Kofi has the ball in dribbling mode. So he has less visibility as to what to do next. Sometimes he'll just power through it and lay it in. Sometimes he'll pass out. But it seems to be more difficult for him than earlier in the season.

Where Curbelo will help, I hope, is that he'll get the ball down to Kofi in a better position where he doesn't have to dribble down the paint to the basket as much. The lower down the paint the entry pass comes from, the easier it is for Kofi to just lay it in or dunk. Curbelo's passing and dribbling ability can free that clog up. That's what I've been waiting for since the beginning of the season, and I hope it will be in abundance these last 10 games.
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I agree with everything that you are saying here except that Kofi starts getting hacked the moment he touches the ball. Help defenders don't wait for him to start to dribble. They may not get there in time but, he is hacked the moment he touches the ball.
 
#39      
Chad Fleck
KevinC said:
He is also, not a fan of pull-up jumpers. He doesn't mind floaters but, has stated that he wants a 3 pt shot or taking the ball all the way to the basket. Ayo was too good to bench for doing that. I think that Hawk worries about BU's reaction if he takes a pull-up J. There are a number of stars in the NBA that the mid-range jumper is the reason that they are playing at that level. It may not be the most efficient mode of shooting but, it is huge when a team just needs a basket.
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This makes me question my life choices. I feel very differently, but I totally believe in Brad Underwood's basketball mind.
 
#40      
sacraig
KevinC said:
BU gives players different roles. He is also, not a fan of pull-up jumpers. He doesn't mind floaters but, has stated that he wants a 3 pt shot or taking the ball all the way to the basket. Ayo was too good to bench for doing that. I think that Hawk worries about BU's reaction if he takes a pull-up J. There are a number of stars in the NBA that the mid-range jumper is the reason that they are playing at that level. It may not be the most efficient mode of shooting but, it is huge when a team just needs a basket.
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I guess it's sort of a situation where a pull up jumper is a fairly low percentage shot for most players, so you've got to earn that leeway?
 
#41      
lstewart53x3
KevinC said:
BU gives players different roles. He is also, not a fan of pull-up jumpers. He doesn't mind floaters but, has stated that he wants a 3 pt shot or taking the ball all the way to the basket. Ayo was too good to bench for doing that. I think that Hawk worries about BU's reaction if he takes a pull-up J. There are a number of stars in the NBA that the mid-range jumper is the reason that they are playing at that level. It may not be the most efficient mode of shooting but, it is huge when a team just needs a basket.
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Hawkins taking a pull-up midrange J is the last shot I want to see each game.
 
#44      
Baskins Tiger
Will they name a NPOY before the tournament?
Tonight was a great game for Kofi, but that Kentucky center is a glass cleaning fool.. so we are gonna have to whoop them I'd think for Kofi to overtake him.
 
#45      
Epsilon
I think I just realized that Trent Frazier is like the Joe Dumars of the Pistons. Doesn’t get nearly enough credit for their success. Explained in this video (which has Jordan highlights for some reason).

 
#47      
NJJ871
Ransom Stoddard said:
I would love to see Frazier have a Dumars-like career in the league.
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I think this underrates Dumars a bit as an offensive force - he had a 7-year stretch (1988-1995) where he averaged 19.7 PPG, with a high of 23.6. He shot .480 from 2 and .382 from 3, and as great a defensive player as he was, his offensive win-shares were about double his defensive.
 
#48      
Joel Goodson
Epsilon said:
I think I just realized that Trent Frazier is like the Joe Dumars of the Pistons. Doesn’t get nearly enough credit for their success. Explained in this video (which has Jordan highlights for some reason).

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Dumars was kind of like the Rodney Dangerfield of his era in the NBA. Frazier is the same for high D1. Good comp.

Some playing similarities, but a lot of differences too.
 
#50      
Epsilon
Joel Goodson said:
Dumars was kind of like the Rodney Dangerfield of his era in the NBA. Frazier is the same for high D1. Good comp.

Some playing similarities, but a lot of differences too.
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Yeah TBH I have no idea what I’m doing when it comes to comps. I was just going down a rabbit hole with the defensive PPP stat and what went into it, given how great Trent’s number was. I was trying to figure out what kinds of plays do and don’t count in that number, and I came across an article talking about defensive efficiency and how Dumars’ defensive numbers for efficiency don’t show up in that figure. Then I came across that video, and thought it was perhaps an interesting parallel. What can I say, I’m a numbers guy. And unfortunately, now you see how easily distracted I get from work…

squirrel GIF
 
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