According to the alleged victim. The legal case though was indeed thrown out this year as the alleged victim's lawyers failed to meet criteria for discovery. Not sure if that was evidence related or lawyer related, but just reading up on it, it looked like a complete cluster**** of a hearing.
2024-25 College Football Coaching Carousel
Yes.
Michigan State football coach Mel Tucker accused of sexually harassing rape survivor
Michigan State is investigating claim that the Spartans coach harassed Brenda Tracy, an anti-gender-based violence activist and trainer.
www.usatoday.com
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
The reason the situation reeks is ultimately on the Tucker/MSU/contract side.
MSU signed Tucker to a 10-year $95 million fully guaranteed contract after his successful 2021 that was very clear at the time was getting out over their skis in an effort to look big-time and when things started going backward the next year the situation fell rapidly into a catastrophic place where they had buyers remorse, didn't want this coach, and were YEARS away from being able to afford firing him.
And of course in 2023 we're sort of in the last legs of or a transition from the #metoo era, and the associated froth on college campuses.
And then this kind of strange story emerges that's just laser-targeted at relieving the University from this colossal, department-ruining mistake they'd made.
The circumstances outside the case lead me to have greater suspicion of the circumstances within the case than I otherwise would with a run-of-the-mill football scandal. It's way way too convenient.
Lunney has been good about working within Bret's conservative system and I think he's earned the trust to be more aggressive, but our run plays are still so unimaginative. They rely on our backs almost immediately making a guy miss or breaking a tackle.
The big exception was against Purdue where we were in constant motion and getting guys in space. I would love seeing some screens to Valentine or jet sweeps that get him to full speed going to the edge.
Overall though, Lunney has been doing well enough, which is Bret's strategy. Luke's emergence as a very good quarterback has helped Bret loosen the reins a bit.
The big exception was against Purdue where we were in constant motion and getting guys in space. I would love seeing some screens to Valentine or jet sweeps that get him to full speed going to the edge.
Overall though, Lunney has been doing well enough, which is Bret's strategy. Luke's emergence as a very good quarterback has helped Bret loosen the reins a bit.
No, the article doesn't give guarantees it happened.Yes.
Michigan State football coach Mel Tucker accused of sexually harassing rape survivor
Michigan State is investigating claim that the Spartans coach harassed Brenda Tracy, an anti-gender-based violence activist and trainer.www.usatoday.com
After Illinois' most recent "incident", haven't we learned anything?
I'm not making a judgment on whether the accusations are false or not.
But the University's rationale for doing what it did was based on the accusations being true. The lack of consent is what makes the Mel Tucker incident potentially different than the rumors we've heard about Walters. If the accusations are false, that's another matter entirely, but Michigan State obviously did not make its decision under the assumption they were false (though its entirely possible there were monetary motivations for taking the accusations at face value). If the Walters incident does not involve accusations of sexual harassment, and indeed is just an inappropriate consensual relationship, then Purdue would be be reaching a little further than MSU. I think that's all the original poster was saying.
Edit: To further make the point, Mel Tucker's entire defense is that the relationship was consensual, and therefore MSU should not have been able to fire him for cause. Based on the Walters rumors, everyone appears to agree the relationship was consensual, but Purdue is still apparently going to attempt to fire him for it, for cause.
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Oh for sure. I mean since the dawn of time, people and organizations do what ever they can to get out of bad contracts. It's clear that MSU is trying to do just that as is Purdue in this case. I mean why pay millions of dollars to get rid of an unwanted employee if you could just not pay them instead? The real question is how legitimate of a legal case do they have? In the MSU case, if the coach was misusing his position, power, and authority in attempt to "trade" a job opportunity for sexual favors as was what was originally alleged, I think there's a fairly good legal argument for MSU (by the way, I do agree with you that some of the facts of the allegations are let's go with questionable based on the alleged victim's released texts). And there's still a lot of question there whether the argument will hold especially with the victim's case being thrown out. In this Purdue case, from a legal perspective, there's going to need to be a lot more released about Walters improprieties for them to have a shot at a "for cause" firing in my opinion. But hey, when millions are on the line, gotta shoot your shot if you're the university.
Just as a point of clarification, in the MSU case, was the victim's case actually thrown out? I believe a case regarding the disclosure of text messages was thrown out, but there is a new case in which the victim is suing Tucker for defamation, for his claims that the relationship was consensual, and for emotional distress. That was just filed on October 4, and I do not believe has been thrown out, unless there is a development I am not seeing anywhere.
Yes, I agree with it all. But Tucker's case is alleged harassment. I'm not aware it's ever been established.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
EXTREMELY different fact pattern. Not like the TSJ thing whatsoever.
First, it was never a police matter, this was all private action from a University investigation and subsequent lawsuit by the woman. And there's no whodunit, Tucker did the thing he was accused of by his own admission. "Phone sex" with this woman, to be euphemistic.
The question is how unsolicited and unwanted this was.
And then the question of how fire-for-causable such behavior actually is gets layered on top of it.
Brings disrepute upon the University? The University ITSELF was the one bringing this to light, pretty transparently hoping it could be their magic deus ex machina to pull their football program out of a death spiral.
Sort of a perverse flip of the conventional story of disbelieving the woman's story because it hurts the football team, the University was desperate to bolster the woman's story to save the football team. Ugly, ugly business.
Well, I think that depends on what lens you look at it through.
The University investigated the claims and their finding was that it was harassment. At that point, as far as the employer is concerned it is no longer alleged, but substantiated, and that's what they based their decision on. Sexual harassment is generally not a criminal matter, and in many instances, such as this one, is a workplace issue. The workplace found that it was indeed harassment.
Tucker has since filed a lawsuit, and that is pending. In that lawsuit, nothing has been established either way. But unlike the Shannon criminal case you alluded to, this is Tucker's suit, and he has the burden of proving his claims against the University.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
I will also add, there is absolutely nothing wrong in theory with the idea that a coach is not entitled to his buyout if he can't keep his sexual appetites out of the workplace. That is not an unreasonable ask at all in 2024 and the people of all demographics who work in these now-gigantic organizations are entitled to those kinds of standards.
But by the same token, we all understand the reality of what testosterone-fueled "old-school" environments football teams still are, and for propriety and decency to be used selectively and exclusively as a get-out-of-contract-free card by the employer is cynical, shameful stuff.
But by the same token, we all understand the reality of what testosterone-fueled "old-school" environments football teams still are, and for propriety and decency to be used selectively and exclusively as a get-out-of-contract-free card by the employer is cynical, shameful stuff.
I don't see Lunney going anywhere unless its to Arkansas either as HC or AHC/OC. It's been pointed out he is tough, smart, dependable but doesn't really set the world on fire. JA is doing great as did TDV but they aren't Heisman guys, just very good QBs and good mostly balanced offenses.
hmmm. i would ordinarily say any oc at a program like illinois jumps to go to a place like ou, but venables is a dead man walking.
Maybe, but we are building something here and are in one of the 2 most desirable leagues. Why not stay over moving to a place where the expectations are unrealistic when you can wait for your dream job or a better opportunity.
Not that I fully disagree with you, but Oklahoma is in the other of the 2 most desirable leagues. So that's probably not really a factor.
OU is dumpster fire
Let me preface this by saying I am a believer in what we're doing and think we are genuinely building something here.
That being said, there's no guarantees, and brand recognition is a fact of life. One might rationalize that by going to OU, if things don't work out you still have OU (a program that was in legit national championship contention just 5 or so years ago) on your resume, and it makes finding the next job easier. If things fall apart at Illinois, then your next landing spot is probably a bit further down.
Not saying that would be the right choice, or the choice Lunney would or should make in that scenario. Just saying, it's not impossible to imagine someone in his position making that choice.
Edit: Not to mention, they could throw a boatload of cash at him, and it's hard for someone to turn down a huge raise, even if it's a worse situation in other regards.
That's where the other considerations come in. League is equal, but your fan base at OK is unrealistic about what to expect and odds are he would only be there 1 year. Now if we were talking HC at OK I don't think he could pass that up, but if it is OC. He has either JA again or Leary who has been in his system for 3 years. We have a stable of good RBs, good depth at WR, and some highly touted TEs coming in next year. All in a place and system he is established. He can do more good for himself here than he can with one misery laden season at OK (also go pokes!)
Oh wow, had no idea there was another case. Thought that case was one and the same. Well, I guess the case isn't thrown out then. I do have to say, reading some if the summaries of those court proceedings, I think we can all be thankful of the competency of TSJ's legal team, because man, there's so much worse out there.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
Not to pick nits, but why should Oklahoma fans expect anything other than elite offensive performance on a national title contending team?
That's a top 5 all time program in rich recruiting territory and the best conference in the country that sells out an 80,000 seat venue rain or shine.
Demanding fans are both morally good and a concrete benefit to a program.
Insane fanbase refusal to accept decline has willed Tennessee back to the top, so it shall be at Nebraska, so it will be at Oklahoma if necessary.
Somewhere, in an Illini uniform, Corey Bradford is shooting...and MAKING... a three!... for the one hundredth straight game!
The main problem at Oklahoma is the absolute whiff in their portal oline “additions”. Bill is one of the best Oline coaches in the game but their Oline is absolute !!!. That and just an unreal amount of WR injuries has completely crippled that offense. The defense has made a complete turnaround from the Grench days. BV is a great guy and has done an incredible job, minus the offensive collapse. I expect a national search for the next OC and also a complete overhaul of that Oline. I wouldn’t count him out yet.
Mr. Tibbs
- southeast DuPage
just gonna be A LOT harder for them in the SEC than it was in the B12. Their schedule is 2x to 3x harder now
True, but with the expanded playoff, there's also a little more wiggle room to lose a game or two.
I think it's more likely that OU eventually returns to contention than that they become Mississippi State or Vandy or something like that. If I were completely neutral and were asked to put money on either Illinois or Oklahoma winning a national title in in the next 20 years, it would be very hard to justify not betting on OU.