Illinois Football Recruiting Thread

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#26      
Its a 24% increase in the amount of football scholarships
schools like Ohio State and Michigan, and Bama and Georgia can easily afford it
most other schools not so much

if you ask me, this leads to more transfers AND it makes the rich schools richer .
They now have 20 more opportunities to find talented players to further separate themselves from schools like UI.
 
#27      
Could be wrong, but I thought I heard somewhere that with recent rulings, or upcoming one, walk ons for football typically wouldn’t exist anymore. Because they have the same routine eg practice schedules, meetings, workouts, food, game day, etc as a typical scholarship player so therefore would be considered a student athlete and should be afforded the same benefits as typical scholarship athlete for same sport.
I wonder if the last 10-15 or so scholarships would go towards scout team/walk ons.


Why would we give walk on caliber players scholarships?
 
#28      
Its a 24% increase in the amount of football scholarships
schools like Ohio State and Michigan, and Bama and Georgia can easily afford it
most other schools not so much

if you ask me, this leads to more transfers AND it makes the rich schools richer .
They now have 20 more opportunities to find talented players to further separate themselves from schools like UI.
Exactly....this will drive a return to the days of the Big 2 and little 8. Illinois was probably the 3rd best Big 10 program during the Blackman era, but had no chance against UM or OSU. Terrible for college football
 
#29      
Its a 24% increase in the amount of football scholarships
schools like Ohio State and Michigan, and Bama and Georgia can easily afford it
most other schools not so much

if you ask me, this leads to more transfers AND it makes the rich schools richer .
They now have 20 more opportunities to find talented players to further separate themselves from schools like UI.
I disagree. Who wants to be position 86-105 on a team that isn't getting any PT when they can transfer as much as they want and get PT now?

Football reps are so precious that those kids aren't seeing meaningful practice reps let alone game time. They can probably score more NIL as a contributor somewhere else.
 
#30      
I disagree. Who wants to be position 86-105 on a team that isn't getting any PT when they can transfer as much as they want and get PT now?

Football reps are so precious that those kids aren't seeing meaningful practice reps let alone game time. They can probably score more NIL as a contributor somewhere else.
Except those kids won’t know they’re being recruited as cannon fodder. The whole point of scholarship limits was to even the playing field.
 
#31      
Except those kids won’t know they’re being recruited as cannon fodder. The whole point of scholarship limits was to even the playing field.
The difference is now they can transfer out and at worst they got to take advantage of the food, S&C program, and resources of a larger before transferring.

Also, everyone knows who already is at a program, who is going to a program, and who is being recruited to a program. It's never been easier to know where you will sit when you make your decision. Maybe your dream school is Alabama and they give you a spot knowing you will probably never contribute.

I'm not saying that some kids won't be mislead by where they are going to rank on a team, but at least now they can transfer. So even if they make that mistake or get lied to, they can move on.
 
#32      
I disagree. Who wants to be position 86-105 on a team that isn't getting any PT when they can transfer as much as they want and get PT now?

Football reps are so precious that those kids aren't seeing meaningful practice reps let alone game time. They can probably score more NIL as a contributor somewhere else.
The same kind of kids in positions 66-85 today, only worse. Some kids want to play, and some kids want the chance at the ring they can show their grandkids 50 years later, even if their contribution was negligible.
 
#33      
The same kind of kids in positions 66-85 today, only worse. Some kids want to play, and some kids want the chance at the ring they can show their grandkids 50 years later, even if their contribution was negligible.
66-85 is so much different than 86-105. Year 2 and you are a redshirt freshman and probably on ST or on the 3 deep or you are getting recruited over. Maybe some kid from Georgia is willing to be a back of the roster guy but wants to play for his dream school.
 
#34      
66-85 is so much different than 86-105. Year 2 and you are a redshirt freshman and probably on ST or on the 3 deep or you are getting recruited over. Maybe some kid from Georgia is willing to be a back of the roster guy but wants to play for his dream school.
My guess is the 86-105 spots will be reserved for the same type of kids who would walk on at a program now, except they'll be on scholarship, and hope to contribute as a redshirt junior/senior.
 
#35      
a roster of 105 , will still give the top 20 programs 400 more players on scholly than now . these are mid-high 3* players that we and 40 other programs would have a decent chance to sign .

yea , these guys can freely transfer out after a year or two and many will

but this really is one more way that the haves will get first chance at these guys before we do in the portal after year 1 or year 2.

it’s not good for our program and 2/3 of the programs in the P4.

with no caps on NIL, the rich will get richer . there is a valid reason the NFL has a draft for new players AND a salary cap as well . it helps even the playing field . meanwhile , the college playing field keeps getting tilted more
 
#36      
My guess is the 86-105 spots will be reserved for the same type of kids who would walk on at a program now, except they'll be on scholarship, and hope to contribute as a redshirt junior/senior.
i don’t know

we will simply try to sign more low-mid 3* players that right now end up on scholly in the MAC or FCS, or any other G5 school.

some of our walk ons were offered schollies at those schools , but most weren’t . most walk ons don’t see much playing time . we aren’t going to spend $50,000 a year ($1,000,000 in total ) on these 20 players .

3-4 years from now the disparity in talent between P4 & G5/FCS will be dramatic

kids on scholly will never / rarely gut it out for 3-4-5 years if they are on the 5 deep . our walk on program will cease to exist . close the file on the Tim McCarthy scholarship . it’s done
 
#37      
Will most schools even attempt to fill a roster of 105? There is such a thing as spreading the Coaching staff, facilities, housing, support personnel, etc.... too thin.
 
#38      
Will most schools even attempt to fill a roster of 105? There is such a thing as spreading the Coaching staff, facilities, housing, support personnel, etc.... too thin.
I think the top 15-20 schools certainly will

if the money is there and mid-high 3* are willing to sign up , why wouldn’t they

you are forgetting that “analysts” now can wear a whistle Mon-Fri
 
#39      
I think the top 15-20 schools certainly will

if the money is there and mid-high 3* are willing to sign up , why wouldn’t they

you are forgetting that “analysts” now can wear a whistle Mon-Fri
Yes, I'd fully expect the Illini would fill all 105 slots, but there's likely a break point in there somewhere, where some schools just can't justify the additional expenses. Might be schools outside the top 80-100 or so I would think.
 
#40      
A couple [too many] comments about the 105 threshold:


(1) The horse left the barn a while ago for having a college athlete system where schools are selling lucrative media rights for their events and some of those athletes are not receiving any type of compensation. If anything, it's tough to justify leaving a walk-on system in place when every program has at least a couple, if not more, walk-ons that are valuable contributors to their team. That team is also getting an almost, and soon-to-surpass, $100 million dollar check to broadcast the event. It's worse than an internship because the athlete isn't even getting educational credit. We can moan and complain but college football is mega business now. There isn't a legal case for leaving the old system in place. Now we are left with...
(2) Trying to negotiate between a mix of stakeholders that are pulling in different directions. School and athletic admins want less roster spots for cost control. These admins and legal counsel also want less roster spots as a future asset for negotiating with players. Coaches want as many roster spots as possible because all of them want maximum talent, depth, they all think they are the best scouts, etc. Players want maximum scholarships for obvious reasons.
(3) I've already seen some legal scholars say they aren't sure it's legally defensible to set a maximum threshold without congressional involvement. We might only have the 105 for a couple years and then this all is torn down and started again.
(4) All of the B1G, SEC, Big XII, and ACC schools will pay for 105 scholarships. For the same reason that each of these schools have increased spending by 30% every year: the checks keep increasing substantially and there is too many benefits for convincing the masses that *your* team can become a CFB contender. I'd also venture that any program that has a inkling of desire to make it into these top four conferences will also gladly pay for 105 scholarships (Boise State, Liberty, Memphis, Texas State, Toledo, North Texas, USF, East Carolina, UTSA, or just about every AAC, Sun Belt team). It's the price of business.
(5) ....but how will these schools afford it? Scholarships can be viewed as funny money. The school charges the athletic department the privilege of offering these scholarships but it's simply a shuffling of accounting on paper. There are no asset costs. There are things like discount rates and other accounting considerations, but university administration could decide tomorrow to not "charge" the athletic department for these scholarships and the business model wouldn't change. **I would argue that many universities already do this when they forgive internal loans they previously provided to athletic departments - such as this: Arizona State forgives $300 million in athletic dept debt
(6) Now, some of you may wonder how can schools just afford endless scholarships when there is a limited amount of students admitted to the school. That's an Illinois way of viewing things. Many schools won't turn away kids wanting to enroll. Especially if they run a 4.5 40. Many schools will keep admitting kids if they can qualify. This isn't a problem outside of 30-40 programs.
(7) The question about small schools and how they'll invest in recruiting shouldn't be limited to small schools. It's going to be a choice for every program except for the bluest of blue bloods. The Georgia, Texas, Ohio State's of the world will recruit the best HS players in the country and fill in a couple gaps with the best transfers available. The rest of the programs will have varying approaches to how they will approach player acquisition/talent development. People like Dabo, Ferentz, or programs in talent-rich areas are likely to continue investing in the high school area and believe in an old school program development model. People like Chip Kelley, the late Mike Leach, and Deion believe that there time is more valuable with recruiting proven transfers and avoid the development model entirely. Then you have 95% of the other coaches somewhere in the middle having to tweak their approach every year based on HS classes and roster needs. I would argue that the model would MAC schools (outside of Toledo) has been bleak since the early 2010's and really hasn't changed. Before the transfer portal, your top players were just lured away to better programs the old fashioned way: A dark market with McDonald's bags full of money. Now it just happens in broad daylight. I'll keep saying it: people are upset now because they are publicly shown what was happening behind doors before. There are countless athlete testimonials out there of coaches asking for a price from HS recruits to sign. We shouldn't be offended now that we are seeing it in action and it includes current players.
(8) For those saying that college football is going down a path of destruction because of what's happened recently: You could easily pick up fandom in a D3 team like North Central College or many other programs if you want to root for the true college experience. Either you are naive to what things have been like for 50+ years or you aren't being serious with yourself about what's going to turn you away from the game.
 
#41      
A couple [too many] comments about the 105 threshold:


(1) The horse left the barn a while ago for having a college athlete system where schools are selling lucrative media rights for their events and some of those athletes are not receiving any type of compensation. If anything, it's tough to justify leaving a walk-on system in place when every program has at least a couple, if not more, walk-ons that are valuable contributors to their team. That team is also getting an almost, and soon-to-surpass, $100 million dollar check to broadcast the event. It's worse than an internship because the athlete isn't even getting educational credit. We can moan and complain but college football is mega business now. There isn't a legal case for leaving the old system in place. Now we are left with...
(2) Trying to negotiate between a mix of stakeholders that are pulling in different directions. School and athletic admins want less roster spots for cost control. These admins and legal counsel also want less roster spots as a future asset for negotiating with players. Coaches want as many roster spots as possible because all of them want maximum talent, depth, they all think they are the best scouts, etc. Players want maximum scholarships for obvious reasons.
(3) I've already seen some legal scholars say they aren't sure it's legally defensible to set a maximum threshold without congressional involvement. We might only have the 105 for a couple years and then this all is torn down and started again.
(4) All of the B1G, SEC, Big XII, and ACC schools will pay for 105 scholarships. For the same reason that each of these schools have increased spending by 30% every year: the checks keep increasing substantially and there is too many benefits for convincing the masses that *your* team can become a CFB contender. I'd also venture that any program that has a inkling of desire to make it into these top four conferences will also gladly pay for 105 scholarships (Boise State, Liberty, Memphis, Texas State, Toledo, North Texas, USF, East Carolina, UTSA, or just about every AAC, Sun Belt team). It's the price of business.
(5) ....but how will these schools afford it? Scholarships can be viewed as funny money. The school charges the athletic department the privilege of offering these scholarships but it's simply a shuffling of accounting on paper. There are no asset costs. There are things like discount rates and other accounting considerations, but university administration could decide tomorrow to not "charge" the athletic department for these scholarships and the business model wouldn't change. **I would argue that many universities already do this when they forgive internal loans they previously provided to athletic departments - such as this: Arizona State forgives $300 million in athletic dept debt
(6) Now, some of you may wonder how can schools just afford endless scholarships when there is a limited amount of students admitted to the school. That's an Illinois way of viewing things. Many schools won't turn away kids wanting to enroll. Especially if they run a 4.5 40. Many schools will keep admitting kids if they can qualify. This isn't a problem outside of 30-40 programs.
(7) The question about small schools and how they'll invest in recruiting shouldn't be limited to small schools. It's going to be a choice for every program except for the bluest of blue bloods. The Georgia, Texas, Ohio State's of the world will recruit the best HS players in the country and fill in a couple gaps with the best transfers available. The rest of the programs will have varying approaches to how they will approach player acquisition/talent development. People like Dabo, Ferentz, or programs in talent-rich areas are likely to continue investing in the high school area and believe in an old school program development model. People like Chip Kelley, the late Mike Leach, and Deion believe that there time is more valuable with recruiting proven transfers and avoid the development model entirely. Then you have 95% of the other coaches somewhere in the middle having to tweak their approach every year based on HS classes and roster needs. I would argue that the model would MAC schools (outside of Toledo) has been bleak since the early 2010's and really hasn't changed. Before the transfer portal, your top players were just lured away to better programs the old fashioned way: A dark market with McDonald's bags full of money. Now it just happens in broad daylight. I'll keep saying it: people are upset now because they are publicly shown what was happening behind doors before. There are countless athlete testimonials out there of coaches asking for a price from HS recruits to sign. We shouldn't be offended now that we are seeing it in action and it includes current players.
(8) For those saying that college football is going down a path of destruction because of what's happened recently: You could easily pick up fandom in a D3 team like North Central College or many other programs if you want to root for the true college experience. Either you are naive to what things have been like for 50+ years or you aren't being serious with yourself about what's going to turn you away from the game.
agree with 95% of what you wrote

I , like most , love to eat sausage .
I just don’t want to see it being made .

edit : I can’t see any future other than one in which the 60-70 schools in the Power Conferences break away and self govern (at least for football & basketball ) and playing other schools in football is limited to those there in .
 
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#42      
(8) For those saying that college football is going down a path of destruction because of what's happened recently: You could easily pick up fandom in a D3 team like North Central College or many other programs if you want to root for the true college experience. Either you are naive to what things have been like for 50+ years or you aren't being serious with yourself about what's going to turn you away from the game.
Wouldnt have to change your color scheme for Wheaton College. just saying
 
#43      
agree with 95% of what you wrote

I , like most , love to eat sausage .
I just don’t want to see it being made .

edit : I can’t see any future other than one in which the 60-70 schools in the Power Conferences break away and self govern (at least for football & basketball ) and playing other schools in football is limited to those there in .

Yes, I totally get it. Many of us want sport to be something we don't have to think about. We may know there are a lot of political, social, and financial aspects happening, but prefer to be blissfully ignorant.
 
#44      
a roster of 105 , will still give the top 20 programs 400 more players on scholly than now . these are mid-high 3* players that we and 40 other programs would have a decent chance to sign .

yea , these guys can freely transfer out after a year or two and many will

but this really is one more way that the haves will get first chance at these guys before we do in the portal after year 1 or year 2.

it’s not good for our program and 2/3 of the programs in the P4.

with no caps on NIL, the rich will get richer . there is a valid reason the NFL has a draft for new players AND a salary cap as well . it helps even the playing field . meanwhile , the college playing field keeps getting tilted more

Top schools won’t add hs players to be 5th string. I would imagine they hit the portal even harder which will make roster retention for us much harder.
 
#46      
From @grue2 in a basketball thread:

If I am reading the new rules right, all scholarship limits have been removed. There are now roster limits per sport. This prevents schools from having unlimited rosters by using NIL instead of scholarships.
 
#47      
Fact is, over a period of time, you are going to lose the built-in, geographic/generational/familial/hardcore fans..... will it take 5 years, 10?, or a generation? Who knows? I have zero doubt this will happen. Please tell me how you replace those long-term fans/fanbases????

I guarantee you the current wave of corporate cash investments in NCAA Football (sports in general) has taken this into consideration. And will be doing what ALL businesses do. They know it is NOT a long term profitable investment. They just want the guaranteed money they can make over the next 5-15 years and will bail when the profits cease to exist. And leave NCAA sports high and dry without a shred of remorse the moment the profits dry up. There will be an 'OUT' somewhere in their contracts with the NCAA/B1G/SEC/B12/etc.... There appears to be little, if any, thought given to the long term ramifications of these decisions. I suspect that many schools realize that NCAA sports will probably be non-existent at some point during the years 2050-2075, and just want to line the coffers as best they can until that point....
 
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#50      
My guess is the 86-105 spots will be reserved for the same type of kids who would walk on at a program now, except they'll be on scholarship, and hope to contribute as a redshirt junior/senior.
What those kids will be is what they were decades ago when the limit was 105. Top schools recruited kids they thought could not play for them, but didn't want them playing against them. Difference now is the annual transfer ability
 
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