Illini Basketball 2021-2022

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#226      
All true…in regards to the straight up and down philosophy of a jumpshot. That’s definitely a conventional wisdom kind of thing…

Well…with the possible exception of Jay Burson that is…who often tended to: float forward, or even float sideways …Jay also did have a little bit of a leg kick near the time of release- a bit like Curbelo’s

Burson obviously had a wide assortment of shots …sometimes a double-clutching Maravich-inspired floater…or a Cousy-like runner where he went off of…and usually landed on one foot.

Interestingly, on his free-throws he tended to place his FRONT right foot WAY in front of the other…favoring that over a wider base with the front toe slightly in front-like most shooters prefer. But, then again everything about that dude was an anomaly. Somebody stop me…I could talk about Jay Burson’s jump shot all day.

Props on bringing up Jay Burson, about whom I was thinking recently. A formidable point guard. He was listed at 6'0" but I ran into him once and he was barely taller than me (5'10" at the time.) Held the Ohio High School scoring record (for all classes) for more than 20 years. A coach's kid and master of the fundamentals.

Coincidentally, I recently stumbled across an article from 1965 about Hall of Fame Knicks star Bill Bradley when he was an All-American at Princeton, and the best basketball player in America. I've been reading it during my commute the past couple days. It's a long read but one of several gems I've found recently from the golden age of sports journalism. The essay has a lengthy dissection of Bradley's repertoire of moves, and it all comes down, unsurprisingly, to footwork.

I highly recommend it to any hoops fan, particularly former players. It also reminded me that the Golden State Warriors (formerly the Philly Warriors) were originally the Syracuse Nationals!

A Sense of Where You Are
What makes a truly great basketball player?

Here's a passage about Bradley that reminds me of our beloved Belo:

Bradley’s play has just one somewhat unsound aspect, and it is the result of his mania for throwing the ball to his teammates. He can’t seem to resist throwing a certain number of passes that are based on nothing but theory and hope; in fact, they are referred to by the Princeton coaching staff as Bradley’s hope passes. They happen, usually, when something has gone just a bit wrong. Bradley is recovering a loose ball, say, with his back turned to the other Princeton players. Before he turned it, he happened to notice a screen, or pick-off, being set by two of his teammates, its purpose being to cause one defensive man to collide with another and thus free an offensive man to receive a pass and score. Computations whir in Bradley’s head. He hasn’t time to look, but the screen, as he saw it developing, seemed to be working, so a Princeton man should now be in the clear, running toward the basket with one arm up. He whips the ball over his shoulder to the spot where the man ought to be. Sometimes a hope pass goes flying into the crowd, but most of the time they hit the receiver right in the hand, and a gasp comes from several thousand people. Bradley is sensitive about such dazzling passes, because they look flashy, and an edge comes into his voice as he defends them. “When I was halfway down the court, I saw a man out of the corner of my eye who had on the same color shirt I did,” he said recently, explaining how he happened to fire a scoring pass while he was falling out of bounds. “A little later, when I threw the pass, I threw it to the spot where that man should have been if he had kept going and done his job. He was there. Two points.”
 
#227      
I think there's something else to take into consideration as well- alcohol. It's fairly new in the venue's, and it's apparent that some people can't hold their booze. I took my son to a game in early December, and we enjoyed the pre-game atmosphere. There were many folks partaking in refreshing beverages, while my son chased down errant shots and high-fived players. The folks around us were great- they chatted my son up and helped ensure he had a great time. However, a few of these people had completely different demeanors after half. I wasn't too concerned about the swearing, as belligerent as it sounded, but I was appalled when one of them let slip the N word. Our section got quiet very quickly, and it didn't happen again. But it still happened. And the person wasn't a student. He was a middle-aged season ticket holder (and by all appearances, a very good person until he had too much to drink).

I'm not opposed to alcohol in the stadiums. I enjoy it. But these things will be more prevalent and noticeable in the SFC than they will across the street.
That should be a lifetime ban. With the new rules I hope it is. There are no excuses. I’m embarrassed to be associated with that person as a fellow Illini fan.
 
#228      
Considering the krush sits behind the opposing bench I would assume a couple of them are responsible for this. I feel this letter should of been more internal. Heckling is apart of an a road team atmosphere, I don’t feel like crying on twitter over some curse words is warranted enough to get an AD involved. Parents just don’t teach their kids how to be tough anymore apparently. If any particular fan is that bad they can easily kick them out and ban them on a case by case basis and it’s always been that way.

Bad take ^
If the Murray twins wore the O&B you likely would be appalled and furious that people could demonstrate such vitriol and abhorrent behavior. From all I have read and researched, these two young men have extremely high character. Humble. Respectful.
Specific to this situation, this behavior (chants of F-YOU, you should F-in KILL yourself, etc) by a few Illini fans toward any player(s) is wrong. Period.
Educate yourself to grow out of your antiquated, boorish, and immature mentality of “making kids tougher” excuse.
Social media bullying, hate filled speech, discrimination, and the like have ZERO place in society. ZERO.
We all should stand against these behaviors - independent of what uniform someone wears.
Independent of any and all factors.
There’s no place in society where we should excuse this behavior. Period.
 
#229      
I think there's something else to take into consideration as well- alcohol. It's fairly new in the venue's, and it's apparent that some people can't hold their booze. I took my son to a game in early December, and we enjoyed the pre-game atmosphere. There were many folks partaking in refreshing beverages, while my son chased down errant shots and high-fived players. The folks around us were great- they chatted my son up and helped ensure he had a great time. However, a few of these people had completely different demeanors after half. I wasn't too concerned about the swearing, as belligerent as it sounded, but I was appalled when one of them let slip the N word. Our section got quiet very quickly, and it didn't happen again. But it still happened. And the person wasn't a student. He was a middle-aged season ticket holder (and by all appearances, a very good person until he had too much to drink).

I'm not opposed to alcohol in the stadiums. I enjoy it. But these things will be more prevalent and noticeable in the SFC than they will across the street.
He's not a good person if he used that word. I don't care how much he had to drink. That just means he is able to hide his true colors when sober.
 
#230      
Bad take ^
If the Murray twins wore the O&B you likely would be appalled and furious that people could demonstrate such vitriol and abhorrent behavior. From all I have read and researched, these two young men have extremely high character. Humble. Respectful.
Specific to this situation, this behavior (chants of F-YOU, you should F-in KILL yourself, etc) by a few Illini fans toward any player(s) is wrong. Period.
Educate yourself to grow out of your antiquated, boorish, and immature mentality of “making kids tougher” excuse.
Social media bullying, hate filled speech, discrimination, and the like have ZERO place in society. ZERO.
We all should stand against these behaviors - independent of what uniform someone wears.
Independent of any and all factors.
There’s no place in society where we should excuse this behavior. Period.
7ab.gif



BRAVO...............................BRAVO....................................BRAVO..............................
 
#231      
Bad take ^
If the Murray twins wore the O&B you likely would be appalled and furious that people could demonstrate such vitriol and abhorrent behavior. From all I have read and researched, these two young men have extremely high character. Humble. Respectful.
Specific to this situation, this behavior (chants of F-YOU, you should F-in KILL yourself, etc) by a few Illini fans toward any player(s) is wrong. Period.
Educate yourself to grow out of your antiquated, boorish, and immature mentality of “making kids tougher” excuse.
Social media bullying, hate filled speech, discrimination, and the like have ZERO place in society. ZERO.
We all should stand against these behaviors - independent of what uniform someone wears.
Independent of any and all factors.
There’s no place in society where we should excuse this behavior. Period.
Just because you have a different opinion doesn’t mean you have to spew your own hate with insults towards me about my opinion. Very hypocritical of you when you’re preaching all these anti bullying sentiments. There is nothing wrong with me believing in making kids tougher, also there was no CROWD chanting “kill yourself” only a idiot or two and every fan base has them. So I guess every AD needs to apologize every year after every season for the sporadic ignorant fan with your logic…
 
#232      
Just because you have a different opinion doesn’t mean you have to spew your own hate with insults towards me about my opinion. Very hypocritical of you when you’re preaching all these anti bullying sentiments. There is nothing wrong with me believing in making kids tougher, also there was no CROWD chanting “kill yourself” only a idiot or two and every fan base has them. So I guess every AD needs to apologize every year after every season for the sporadic ignorant fan with your logic…
There was no crowd yelling at you, but after saying kids should toughen up, you still came back to an Internet message board to complain about others and their online comments....hrmmmm.
 
#234      
Just because you have a different opinion doesn’t mean you have to spew your own hate with insults towards me about my opinion. Very hypocritical of you when you’re preaching all these anti bullying sentiments. There is nothing wrong with me believing in making kids tougher, also there was no CROWD chanting “kill yourself” only a idiot or two and every fan base has them. So I guess every AD needs to apologize every year after every season for the sporadic ignorant fan with your logic…

I don’t want to get into a back and forth with you. I will respectfully comment on your reply, and leave it at that. Feel free to respond if you so desire, but my comments will end with this response.

Yes, our opinions differ, however, if you took my condemnation of your stance as spewing hate filled rhetoric, I apologize for poor writing. However, in re-reading my response, I am unsure how my post would be construed as “spewing hate…”

I certainly disagree with your opinion, though I am unsure where I insulted you.
For you to not condemn the behaviors that occurred, and commenting that kids need to be tougher certainly seems like an antiquated way of thinking about hate speech, in my opinion.
Regarding my hypocrisy…I am not hypocritical at all. I’m not bullying you. I’m stating my opinion directly to you without hate speech, without cursing you, without threatening you. I’m simply telling you that I think your wrong and explaining why.

The final point is this: making kids tougher is not what is important in this conversation.
If you’re a parent, or will be a parent, and you choose to want to make your child “tougher”, then that is your right as a parent.
I am a parent of four, and grandparent of five, and I choose to focus on treating people with respect, equality, and kindness.
If this exact situation happened in a classroom, or at the mall, or in a restaurant, or at church, or at a little league game, I wouldn’t tell the victim to toughen up. I would stand up, speak up against the perpetrator, not the victim. I would also expect others to do the same. Society needs to speak up against those that engage in hate speech and bullying, protecting the innocent.

To me, what is relevant and important in this situation is not to “toughen them up” and to judge an AD for writing a letter of condemnation for inappropriate behavior at a sporting event.
The actual important point is that we should ALL stand up against these horrible comments directed at others, be strong and unified that we don’t accept this behavior, and we should applaud the leadership at the University of Illinois by publicly condemning those that demonstrate such poor behavior.
 
#235      
When did I say there was a crowd yelling at me?!?!?
You didn't. But you pointed out their was no crowd chanting at Murray either. You've now commented multiple times on an Internet message board about "tough", but you continue to try and defend yourself and take comments out of context. I tip my hat at your misdirection while ultimately proving Whitman correct in his actions.
 
#240      
I don’t want to get into a back and forth with you. I will respectfully comment on your reply, and leave it at that. Feel free to respond if you so desire, but my comments will end with this response.

Yes, our opinions differ, however, if you took my condemnation of your stance as spewing hate filled rhetoric, I apologize for poor writing. However, in re-reading my response, I am unsure how my post would be construed as “spewing hate…”

I certainly disagree with your opinion, though I am unsure where I insulted you.
For you to not condemn the behaviors that occurred, and commenting that kids need to be tougher certainly seems like an antiquated way of thinking about hate speech, in my opinion.
Regarding my hypocrisy…I am not hypocritical at all. I’m not bullying you. I’m stating my opinion directly to you without hate speech, without cursing you, without threatening you. I’m simply telling you that I think your wrong and explaining why.

The final point is this: making kids tougher is not what is important in this conversation.
If you’re a parent, or will be a parent, and you choose to want to make your child “tougher”, then that is your right as a parent.
I am a parent of four, and grandparent of five, and I choose to focus on treating people with respect, equality, and kindness.
If this exact situation happened in a classroom, or at the mall, or in a restaurant, or at church, or at a little league game, I wouldn’t tell the victim to toughen up. I would stand up, speak up against the perpetrator, not the victim. I would also expect others to do the same. Society needs to speak up against those that engage in hate speech and bullying, protecting the innocent.

To me, what is relevant and important in this situation is not to “toughen them up” and to judge an AD for writing a letter of condemnation for inappropriate behavior at a sporting event.
The actual important point is that we should ALL stand up against these horrible comments directed at others, be strong and unified that we don’t accept this behavior, and we should applaud the leadership at the University of Illinois by publicly condemning those that demonstrate such poor behavior.
I get it. You are not arguing, you are just explaining why he is wrong.
 
#241      
This is just a question, not a criticism. My observation is that Kofi used to dunk nearly everytime he touched the ball. More recently he seems to be tip-toeing and pushing the ball up toward the rim resulting in missed bunnies. You guys who played underneath, is this fatigue, or the result of guys hanging on him, a change in mindset, or just circumstances of positioning that doesn't allow him room gather himself up to leap? As I write this I recall that Efrim Winters "seemed" like he could go straight up 40+ inches without ever bending his knees. Although as another says on here, " the older I get the more vividly I remember things that never happened." Anyway, back to the original question. Any thoughts?
 
#243      
This is just a question, not a criticism. My observation is that Kofi used to dunk nearly everytime he touched the ball. More recently he seems to be tip-toeing and pushing the ball up toward the rim resulting in missed bunnies. You guys who played underneath, is this fatigue, or the result of guys hanging on him, a change in mindset, or just circumstances of positioning that doesn't allow him room gather himself up to leap? As I write this I recall that Efrim Winters "seemed" like he could go straight up 40+ inches without ever bending his knees. Although as another says on here, " the older I get the more vividly I remember things that never happened." Anyway, back to the original question. Any thoughts?
I have wondered that he might have some sort of nagging leg or foot injury that is limiting his explosiveness.
 
#244      
This is just a question, not a criticism. My observation is that Kofi used to dunk nearly everytime he touched the ball. More recently he seems to be tip-toeing and pushing the ball up toward the rim resulting in missed bunnies. You guys who played underneath, is this fatigue, or the result of guys hanging on him, a change in mindset, or just circumstances of positioning that doesn't allow him room gather himself up to leap? As I write this I recall that Efrim Winters "seemed" like he could go straight up 40+ inches without ever bending his knees. Although as another says on here, " the older I get the more vividly I remember things that never happened." Anyway, back to the original question. Any thoughts?
Your observation is correct. Kofi has about half as many dunks this year as he did last year. I think defenses are being much more physical with him this year which makes it harder to explode up to the rim and has the effect of wearing him down throughout the course of a game/ season. We also don't rely on the pick and roll as much which limits his open dunk opportunities.
 
#245      
Your observation is correct. Kofi has about half as many dunks this year as he did last year. I think defenses are being much more physical with him this year which makes it harder to explode up to the rim and has the effect of wearing him down throughout the course of a game/ season. We also don't rely on the pick and roll as much which limits his open dunk opportunities.
He also gives the defense a better opportunity to hack him by always hesitating and bringing the ball down instead of keeping it shoulder high and going straight up. Doesn't excuse the abuse he takes, but it is a bad habit he has not been able to correct.
 
#246      
It's been pointed out how we've gone through long scoring droughts this season. I agree with posters who say we don't have a "bucket getter" like Ayo who can take the ball and score in a number of ways. We have Kofi but he's dependent on someone getting him the ball. Wisky has Taylor, Purdue has Ivey, Iowa has Murray, Rutgers has Harper, etc. Curbelo is our only penetrator who can get anywhere he wants to with the ball...just needs to get it in the hole more consistently and I think he will going forward. I think RJ and possibly one of the incoming frosh might be one of those guys going forward.
 
#247      
It's been pointed out how we've gone through long scoring droughts this season. I agree with posters who say we don't have a "bucket getter" like Ayo who can take the ball and score in a number of ways. We have Kofi but he's dependent on someone getting him the ball. Wisky has Taylor, Purdue has Ivey, Iowa has Murray, Rutgers has Harper, etc. Curbelo is our only penetrator who can get anywhere he wants to with the ball...just needs to get it in the hole more consistently and I think he will going forward. I think RJ and possibly one of the incoming frosh might be one of those guys going forward.
Hawkins could if he had more confidence.
 
#248      
Since there is not a thread to the best of my knowledge for next year, one of the things I’ve been thinking a lot about is if Kofi leaves and the tempo consequently increases, will we see Curbelo take his game to another level? Not saying he is bad in the half court game; just that I’m salivating at the thought of him in a full court offense that likes to push tempo…
 
#249      
No good place to post this but this is a fantastic conversation between Deon Thomas and Eddie Johnson about both of their experiences. So many insights! Eddie was my childhood hero and this was so cool to hear. Hope you enjoy! This podcast is awesome!

 
#250      
I think there's something else to take into consideration as well- alcohol. It's fairly new in the venue's, and it's apparent that some people can't hold their booze. I took my son to a game in early December, and we enjoyed the pre-game atmosphere. There were many folks partaking in refreshing beverages, while my son chased down errant shots and high-fived players. The folks around us were great- they chatted my son up and helped ensure he had a great time. However, a few of these people had completely different demeanors after half. I wasn't too concerned about the swearing, as belligerent as it sounded, but I was appalled when one of them let slip the N word. Our section got quiet very quickly, and it didn't happen again. But it still happened. And the person wasn't a student. He was a middle-aged season ticket holder (and by all appearances, a very good person until he had too much to drink).

I'm not opposed to alcohol in the stadiums. I enjoy it. But these things will be more prevalent and noticeable in the SFC than they will across the street.

This.

It's 100% alcohol. Our nation is absolutely obsessed with it. It's obnoxious.
 
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