Illini Basketball 2021-2022

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#252      
lstewart53x3
#253      
Redbull
A legitimate question for those in the know. Would CH or OP have developed more or have more confidence (CH especially) if coach OA had not left for Kentucky?
 
#254      
DMWSuperFan
WyattEarp said:
I dig your enthusiasm for Monte. I really really do. His versatility has been a thing of legend for us. But holy/holy geez, so has Trent’s…in some of the same but also different ways..,

Monte may be more versatile in
giving up a lot of inches to a guy and still doing a yeoman’s job on him. (Nothing short of amazing many many times-truly.)

But when you absolutely have to lock-down, shut-down, get up in a guys grill…and make him cry for momma…there is no substitute for Trent Frazier. There’s no one consistently that effective on his defensive assignment in the B1G. It’s nothing against Monte…he’s exceptional at what he does 96-98 % of the time. BUT When we needed to absolutely shut someone down they looked to Trent first…not Ayo…not Monte. That’s from Underwood.

On offense Monte remains predominately a spot up shooter…he is not a scorer. Trent is a scorer that has an arsenal of various shots at his disposal. He makes knifing, slashing to the rack moves Monte probably never would. Trent takes a lot of shots because he’s a scorer. Scorer’s have to take their shots. Monte is clearly just not the playmaker Trent is…few are.

But I love Monte…I really do. It’s like Peanut Butter and Bubble Gum. Ya know?
Both great things…just a little different.
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My point was simply that Trent is making 3s at nearly an identical rate as DMW. so to argue DMW doesn’t bring enough is akin to the same for Trent doesn’t deserve to start. Trent scores more largely because he shoots more, not because he makes a higher %
 
#255      
WyattEarp
DMWSuperFan said:
My point was simply that Trent is making 3s at nearly an identical rate as DMW. so to argue DMW doesn’t bring enough is akin to the same for Trent doesn’t deserve to start. Trent scores more largely because he shoots more, not because he makes a higher %
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Okiedoke…I was lost in translation I guess.
 
#256      
RAM 77
DMWSuperFan said:
My point was simply that Trent is making 3s at nearly an identical rate as DMW. so to argue DMW doesn’t bring enough is akin to the same for Trent doesn’t deserve to start. Trent scores more largely because he shoots more, not because he makes a higher %
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Our main 3-point shooters are in a slump, but we've seen DMW running the point and it wasn't pretty! If DMW isn't playing lock down defense and rebounding he's a liability and shouldn't be on the floor. He looks exhausted, dis-interested...I'm not sure, but he definitely doesn't look the the player he is capable of being.
 
#257      
AnnaMay
DMWSuperFan said:
My point was simply that Trent is making 3s at nearly an identical rate as DMW. so to argue DMW doesn’t bring enough is akin to the same for Trent doesn’t deserve to start. Trent scores more largely because he shoots more, not because he makes a higher %
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All this means is that with Trent and Plummer's shooting of late, DMW needs to lose minutes. Plummer does too. If Plummer isnt hitting 3s, he is a huge liability because of how bad he is on defense. The starting 5 should be Curbelo, Trent, Melendez, Hawkins and Kofi. Hawkins is bad on defense too, but I think Underwood needs to roll with him regardless because of his length at the 4. If we are playing against a smaller lineup then perhaps Grandison or DMW can start in place of Hawkins. Our best chance at a title imo is having a bigger team on the floor. DMW should be getting like 20 minutes. His role last year was a much better role for him and he was really good in that role. Just watch any game from the B1G tournament last year and you can see a huge difference in that team and this team. We are not even close to that team last year. Also, we were a good offensive rebounding team early on this year because we were playing bigger.
 
#258      
HailtotheChief
DMWSuperFan said:
My point was simply that Trent is making 3s at nearly an identical rate as DMW. so to argue DMW doesn’t bring enough is akin to the same for Trent doesn’t deserve to start. Trent scores more largely because he shoots more, not because he makes a higher %
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Trent is a better shooter though. Trent is shooting overall at a rate of 41 percent compared to 28 percent for DMW. Trent needs to shoot it better but that's a wide gap.
I just think it's time after 6 seasons of seeing more of the same it's time for some of the long athletic shooter BU recruited to see what they can do at least more than they are now. I personally think that is already starting to happen and I think it's about time now that these freshman and sophomore have gotten a bit of experience and confidence.
 
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#259      
DMWSuperFan
WyattEarp said:
Okiedoke…I was lost in translation I guess.
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To clarify - I agree that Trent is the best defensive player in the year. The OP was saying DMW needs benched because he can’t shoot and defense isn’t enough to justify his PT.

My point was Frazier is hitting 3s at a 0.5% better rate than DMW, so if DMWs failure to hit 3s should result in being benched, then you should apply the same logic to Frazier’s abysmal shooting performance this year.

I don’t think either of them should be benched. I think Frazier needs to keep shooting. A couple bad games and everyone wants to play coach and say everything needs to change or find what they appear to be a weakness and push them out, but BU plays these guys the way he does for a reason. You don’t achieve what he has out of stubbornness. He thinks it through. He has a plan. He has a reason. Lets not suggest he is a bad coach because DMW is getting minutes over RJ is all I’m saying.
 
#260      
HailtotheChief
AnnaMay said:
All this means is that with Trent and Plummer's shooting of late, DMW needs to lose minutes. Plummer does too. If Plummer isnt hitting 3s, he is a huge liability because of how bad he is on defense. The starting 5 should be Curbelo, Trent, Melendez, Hawkins and Kofi. Hawkins is bad on defense too, but I think Underwood needs to roll with him regardless because of his length at the 4. If we are playing against a smaller lineup then perhaps Grandison or DMW can start in place of Hawkins. Our best chance at a title imo is having a bigger team on the floor. DMW should be getting like 20 minutes. His role last year was a much better role for him and he was really good in that role. Just watch any game from the B1G tournament last year and you can see a huge difference in that team and this team. We are not even close to that team last year. Also, we were a good offensive rebounding team early on this year because we were playing bigger.
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I agree with most of this based on match ups and who has the hot hand. Plummer and Jacob have played very well at this me and I think Hawk needs to be much more focused. That non box out of a free throw last night was a spacey unmotivated effort and is worth Hawk sitting for a while until he gets focused. I think that's type of moment is what is so frustrating given how he could help if focused and is likely why Hawk had his tick cut to start with.
 
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#261      
DMWSuperFan
HailtotheChief said:
Trent is a better shooter though. Trent is shooting overall at a rate of 41 percent compared to 28 percent for DMW. Trent needs to shoot it better but that's a wide gap.
I just think it's time after 6 seasons of f seeing more of the same it's time for cc some of the long athletic shooter BU recruited to see what they can do at least more than they are now. I personally think that is already starting to happen and I think it's about time now that these freshman and sophomore have gotten a bit of experience and confidence.
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From 3 they are pretty much equal.
 
#262      
HailtotheChief
DMWSuperFan said:
From 3 they are pretty much equal.
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31 to 35 percent but DMWs looks are usually wide open looks. Trents are not and that's for a reason. Teams focus on stopping Trent and Plummer. In spite if that Trents still shooting much better at 41 to 28 percent are the actual overall shooting from the field. Plus when Trent gets could he is a good FT shooter. DMW is 50 percent and not who we want on the line. Good shooters can make FTs. Plus there is a lot more to being a scorer than jump shooting. They are not close to the same type of players on offense or defense.
DMW does do a good job guarding guys bigger than him but it's not ideal Someone else needs to learn to do that because they do offer more on offense.
I am happy with DMW and know he can provide meaningful minutes. I just expect his avg of nearly 31 minutes a game is going to decline quite a bit in favor of RJ, Belo, Jake, and Hawkins going forward
 
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#263      
DMWSuperFan
HailtotheChief said:
31 to 35 percent but DMWs looks are usually wide open looks. Trents are not and that's for a reason. Teams focus on stopping Trent and Plummer. In spite if that Trents still shooting much better at 41 to 28 percent are the actual overall shooting from the field. Plus when Trent gets could he is a good FT shooter. DM W is 50 percent and not who we want on the line. Good shooters can make FTs. Plus there is a lot more to being a scorer than jump shooting. They are not close to the same type of players on offense or defense.
DMW dors do a good job guarding guys bigger than but it's not ideal Someone else needs to learn to do that because they do offer more on offense.
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Yesterday’s game spread them a bit. Going into the game, it was DMW 33.3%, Frazier 33.8%.

You’re really going to round 34.4% up to 35 and 31.7% down to 31 to try to exaggerate your point? Come on man.
 
#264      
HailtotheChief
DMWSuperFan said:
Yesterday’s game spread them a bit. Going into the game, it was DMW 33.3%, Frazier 33.8%.

You’re really going to round 34.4% up to 35 and 31.7% down to 31 to try to exaggerate your point? Come on man.
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No I am not. I am saying look at the whole picture. Not just three point shooting percentages but also what types of looks the opposition gives them. . Our opposition has left DMW wide open often for a reason. They are focused on the others daring him to shoot it's not the same thing. Plus what good shooter shoots FTs at 50 percent? Trents shoots them at 86 percent. Your picking and choosing just one stat that's fairly close and it's only due to the quality of looks DMW gets vs Trents. Your seeing things with a biased point of view. Kofis shooting FTs better for goodness sake.
Have a good day and Go Illini!
 
#265      
AnnaMay
HailtotheChief said:
I agree with most of this based on match ups and who has the hot hand. Plummer and Jacob have played very well at this me and I think Hawk needs to be much more focused. That non box out of a free throw last night was a spacey unmotivated effort and is worth Hawk sitting for a while until he gets focused. I think that's type of moment is what is so frustrating given how he could help if focused and is likely why Hawk had his tick cut to start with.
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Yes, Hawkins is extremely annoying to watch. Sometimes I feel like he is searching for a hot chick in the stands instead of paying attention to what he is supposed to be doing. Also, he rarely jump stops and generally drives into the lane leaping off 1 foot, off balance, like a wild man and makes a bone head shot because of it. Yes, Hawkins is extremely annoying to watch..BUT, we really need his length and perhaps he can get better with more minutes. If not, sit his butt for Grandy or DMW. I just feel like our best bet to beat good teams is with a bigger line up.
 
#266      
AnnaMay
DMWSuperFan said:
Yesterday’s game spread them a bit. Going into the game, it was DMW 33.3%, Frazier 33.8%.

You’re really going to round 34.4% up to 35 and 31.7% down to 31 to try to exaggerate your point? Come on man.
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Dude, Trent is better than DMW at every part of the game other than rebounding and throwing the ball off the other team's player while going out of bounds.
 
#267      
HailtotheChief
AnnaMay said:
Yes, Hawkins is extremely annoying to watch. Sometimes I feel like he is searching for a hot chick in the stands instead of paying attention to what he is supposed to be doing. Also, he rarely jump stops and generally drives into the lane leaping off 1 foot, off balance, like a wild man and makes a bone head shot because of it. Yes, Hawkins is extremely annoying to watch..BUT, we really need his length and perhaps he can get better with more minutes. If not, sit his butt for Grandy or DMW. I just feel like our best bet to beat good teams is with a bigger line up.
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If Hawkins can stay focused he would be our best option at the 4. I feel his biggest issue is a killer focused mindset and that BU is working so hard to get out. BU has praised him, chewed him out, benched him and is giving him a chance again. I hope he can figure out what is needed to get the mindset of some of it leaders in Hawkins. I think RJ has it he just isn't strong enough yet.
 
#268      
DMWSuperFan
HailtotheChief said:
No I am not. I am saying look at the whole picture. Not just three point shooting percentages but also what types of looks the opposition gives them. . Our opposition has left DMW wide open often for a reason. They are focused on the others daring him to shoot it's not the same thing. Plus what good shooter shoots FTs at 50 percent? Trents shoots them at 86 percent. Your picking and choosing just one stat that's fairly close and it's only due to the quality of looks DMW gets vs Trents. Your seeing things with a biased point of view. Kofis shooting FTs better for goodness sake.
Have a good day and Go Illini!
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Again - the OP was about how DMW can’t make 3s so can’t be on the floor. At the time, the stats from yesterday were not yet added in and they were 0.5% different. I’m not arguing DMW is better than Trent. I was simply saying to pick out a stat and say he should get benched because of that means anyone else shooting that % (will limit to guards) should be benched too because they can’t hit 3s. I was actually pointing out the same flaw in logic that you are.
 
#269      
DMWSuperFan
AnnaMay said:
Dude, Trent is better than DMW at every part of the game other than rebounding and throwing the ball off the other team's player while going out of bounds.
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And defending players that are 6’4”-6’7”. Trent is an invaluable part of this team, but that does not mean DMW should be benched to give a freshman a shot at this point in the season.
 
#271      
Bigtex
HailtotheChief said:
31 to 35 percent but DMWs looks are usually wide open looks. Trents are not and that's for a reason. Teams focus on stopping Trent and Plummer. In spite if that Trents still shooting much better at 41 to 28 percent are the actual overall shooting from the field. Plus when Trent gets could he is a good FT shooter. DMW is 50 percent and not who we want on the line. Good shooters can make FTs. Plus there is a lot more to being a scorer than jump shooting. They are not close to the same type of players on offense or defense.
DMW does do a good job guarding guys bigger than him but it's not ideal Someone else needs to learn to do that because they do offer more on offense.
I am happy with DMW and know he can provide meaningful minutes. I just expect his avg of nearly 31 minutes a game is going to decline quite a bit in favor of RJ, Belo, Jake, and Hawkins going forward
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Not uncommon for a wide open dmw to pass to Trent with 3-4 seconds on shot clock and Trent is forced to take the shot. There is no comparison to scoring between Trent and dmw
 
#273      
727ill
21ChampaignSt said:
I've posted this before, but it's very rare for championship teams to have a player on their roster with a similar statistical profile to DMW. Note "rare" does not equate to "impossible". But if you're talking about "championship aspirations" as a reason for playing DMW more, you should know that DMW does not fit the mold of a starter on a championship caliber team. Statistically.

His role is to play defense, bring energy, and make open shots. He's not doing any of those things well right now and honestly, there have been a few sequences lately where he either looks injured, sick, or just lacking in effort.

He's an important piece to this team. But he's struggling right now. Give some other guys his minutes right now. A player like DMW will find a way to earn them back.
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Mark Vital is sort of the guy we need Damonte to be. Vital couldn't shoot a lick but was the best rebounder and defender on the floor.

Those who have seen Vital play for Baylor know he would never let a guy like Mulcahy back him down in the post.
 
#274      
Ramrod2010
Baskins Tiger said:
Its ridiculous, he met some girl on the internet, she came here, he dissed her for whatever reason, she got real mad he had to practice 4 hours, she left, they argued over text, he said some childish !!!! about people showing up at her house, she decided it was somehow a threat to her safety, she accused him of abuse and threatening her(most likely for her tic toc views) then she tried to get the police involved and the university, they saw what this for what tit was.. childish bs, how could someone injure you over the internet for real.. this tic toc generation is doomed
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wtf-i-just-read.gif
 
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