Conference Realignment

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#126      
champaignchris
Pikeillinifan said:
Question for the board, would we consider OSU or any of the other Texas teams? OSU has strong football and basketball programs, add them, and Kansas.

I mean you could even look at adding Texas Tech and Baylor to open up the Texas market (although not the key parts of it). That said, I am too lazy to look up academic rankings.

Hopefully there are people much smarter than me (and especially Warren) working on this.
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Don’t look at academic ratings. Look at research expenditures. Big 10 universities are research juggernauts. The research budgets dwarf the athletic budgets. Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Michigan all do business in the billions with a ‘b’.

If the Big 10 brings someone new into the fold, it wants someone with something to bring to the table for their shared research consortium. Nebraska was a stretch due to their historic football program and they still have a research budget double that of Okie State.

Kansas is approaching the level of Nebraska, but has arguably the worst football programs in the country. And poor Iowa St is the perfect Big 10 school in every academic respect, but adds nothing in terms of sports or television market.
 
#127      
RedRocksIllini
champaignchris said:
Don’t look at academic ratings. Look at research expenditures. Big 10 universities are research juggernauts. The research budgets dwarf the athletic budgets. Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Michigan all do business in the billions with a ‘b’.

If the Big 10 brings someone new into the fold, it wants someone with something to bring to the table for their shared research consortium. Nebraska was a stretch due to their historic football program and they still have a research budget double that of Okie State.

Kansas is approaching the level of Nebraska, but has arguably the worst football programs in the country. And poor Iowa St is the perfect Big 10 school in every academic respect, but adds nothing in terms of sports or television market.
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Not that you are saying this, but looking only at research expenditures, Johns Hopkins is the 800 pound gorilla in the room. I'd be ok with bringing them on as long as we put them in the Big Ten West. I think we could take them most years.
 
#128      
IlliniShelt
I'd like for the big ten to add Kansas and Oklahoma state but I'd also like to win the lottery and that ain't happening either.

I do sincerely hope the big ten is proactive but I have little faith in Kevin Warren
 
#129      
Illini92and96
IllinoisssssssVarsity said:
You have to understand the perspective of the UT hive mind. They only care about football. They have so much money they don’t even really have to care about it and they know it. The move to the SEC is because they think they belong there because they will be the best football team in the best football conference. This is purely an ego/entitlement move. It’s an aura that trickles down from the UT admin all the way down the casual fan. It’s actually kind of Disgusting.
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Exactly
 
#131      
champaignchris
RedRocksIllini said:
Not that you are saying this, but looking only at research expenditures, Johns Hopkins is the 800 pound gorilla in the room. I'd be ok with bringing them on as long as we put them in the Big Ten West. I think we could take them most years.
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The Big 10 did bring them in. They’re an associate member in lacrosse and part of the academic consortium.

University of Chicago is also part of the academic consortium even though they haven’t participated in Big 10 athletics since the 30s.
 
#132      
GilThorpe
I don’t think there is any school left in the remainder of the B12 that interests the B1G in any way really . it’s all about football - and Kansas is a negative in that regard . what they might add in basketball does not remotely make up for that .

pretty sure the B1G stays on the sidelines this round and pretty sure Pac12 and ACC does also
 
#133      
Qwiksilvur
Illwinsagain said:
Maybe A&M would like to take a look at the B1G.
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I do kinda wonder if you could flip them. I mean their conference just inarguably betrayed them and went behind their back. Flip them and add Virginia….that’s a better result than we got the last round of expansion.
 
#135      
RedRocksIllini
champaignchris said:
The Big 10 did bring them in. They’re an associate member in lacrosse and part of the academic consortium.

University of Chicago is also part of the academic consortium even though they haven’t participated in Big 10 athletics since the 30s.
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I thought when they renamed to the Big Ten Academic Alliance about 5 years ago, Chicago got dropped (or they chose to leave, whichever). I don't think JH was ever a part of that. Not to say there aren't a million or billion academic ties to both schools but I though JH just joined for lacrosse.
 
#136      
TheChief4Life
I think anyone who thinks the B1G is adding schools currently in the ACC (UNC, BC, GaTech, and let's include ND here) or currently in the SEC (Mizzou) are going to be disappointed. If the B1G expands within the next 2 or 3 years, it won't include those schools. With the dismantling of the Big 12, the next step is 16-team super conferences, and that leaves the B1G, Pac-12, SEC, and ACC as front-runners of the first four super conferences. None of the schools in those conferences is going to realign "easily" for a while, however, all conferences WILL go to 16-teams at some point.

This leaves the B1G picking from the remaining Big 12 schools or inviting schools from smaller conferences (which I just don't think will happen). Again, if they want to expand in the next two or three years. A couple things we all need to keep in mind:
1. "Football" or "Basketball" schools are likely not going to be a top priority when expanding the conference. A school that has a great football tradition isn't going to be "priority #1" or anything like that. The B1G will be looking to add new schools; they will not be worried about adding teams.
2. Academics will be a bigger priority than people realize (but will not be the end of the story; i.e. Nebraska).
3. Introduction to a new market will be a big priority (again, regardless of athletic power house).
4. Neither Texas nor Oklahoma are not joining the B1G. You can bet the house on that.

Here's the current Big Ten landscape:

Big Ten.png



When you look at the priority the B1G will use to add new schools, my guess is it goes in backwards order of how I listed it.

The top school to add is Kansas --> New market, AAU university, and IS a basketball powerhouse. Kansas will need a new home. If Texas and Oklahoma leave, the Big 12 will cease to exists. In fact, I would be shocked if Kansas is not in the B1G when the dust finally settles from all of this. This also probably eliminates Kansas State from the list (not that they were likely to be a target). If so, here's what the B1G landscape will look like then:

Big Ten with Kansas.png



From here, there seems to be two schools of thought: pick a school that satisfies academics first, or pick a school that satisfies new market first.

If you are looking at academics first, I think the only real good option is Iowa State (as a lot of you have mentioned). Iowa State is an AAU school, it will be conferenceless after the Big 12 collapses, brings some sports tradition with it, and is a natural geographical fit. However, it really adds nothing marketability-wise. But it's probably still a target for the B1G. If Iowa State were in the B1G, here's the map (from now on, I am assuming Kansas is going to be in the B1G):

Big Ten with Iowa State.png


If the first priority is "new market", I think there are three schools to target. The first is West Virginia. Similarly to Iowa State, it will be conference-less, is a nice geographic fit, and brings its own sports traditions into the mix. It's academic recognition is not that of Iowa State, but it brings in a new market. Here's that map:

Big Ten with West Virginia.png


Another team many have mentioned is Oklahoma State (same attraction as West Virginia):

Big Ten with OK State.png



And finally, here are two wild cards to throw in: TCU and Baylor. Although, I have to imagine that would be a stretch. It's a new market, and both bring sports tradition, but academics is a worry, and while adding a Texas team would be great for the market, geographically it's probably too far south. Also, when people think of Texas college sports, it's not like TCU and Baylor are the first two mentioned. But just for fun:

Big Ten with Tex.png


At the end of the day, you (the B1G, really) will ask itself which schools make the B1G better overall; whether it's academics, $$$, or athletics. If I had to make a bet on it right now, here's the order of likelihood I think schools join the B1G (you'll notice, they are all Big 12 schools):

1.Kansas
2. Iowa State
3. West Virginia (I can see joining ACC)
4. Oklahoma State
5. Baylor
6. TCU
7. Kansas State
8. Texas Tech (probably not even really in the conversation)
Not gonna happen: Oklahoma or Texas

Just me spending too much time thinking about something that everyone already covered...
 
#137      
champaignchris
RedRocksIllini said:
I thought when they renamed to the Big Ten Academic Alliance about 5 years ago, Chicago got dropped (or they chose to leave, whichever). I don't think JH was ever a part of that. Not to say there aren't a million or billion academic ties to both schools but I though JH just joined for lacrosse.
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You’re right about that. Looks like I’m about 5 years out of date. U of C is no longer a member, but a “collaborator.”
 
#138      
JFGsCoffeeMug
It's unfortunate that indecision, lack of vision, and incompetence can all take the form of doing nothing. Makes it harder to figure out what's happening behind the scenes (if anything).
 
#140      
Chieeeeffffff
TheChief4Life said:
I think anyone who thinks the B1G is adding schools currently in the ACC (UNC, BC, GaTech, and let's include ND here) or currently in the SEC (Mizzou) are going to be disappointed. If the B1G expands within the next 2 or 3 years, it won't include those schools. With the dismantling of the Big 12, the next step is 16-team super conferences, and that leaves the B1G, Pac-12, SEC, and ACC as front-runners of the first four super conferences. None of the schools in those conferences is going to realign "easily" for a while, however, all conferences WILL go to 16-teams at some point.

This leaves the B1G picking from the remaining Big 12 schools or inviting schools from smaller conferences (which I just don't think will happen). Again, if they want to expand in the next two or three years. A couple things we all need to keep in mind:
1. "Football" or "Basketball" schools are likely not going to be a top priority when expanding the conference. A school that has a great football tradition isn't going to be "priority #1" or anything like that. The B1G will be looking to add new schools; they will not be worried about adding teams.
2. Academics will be a bigger priority than people realize (but will not be the end of the story; i.e. Nebraska).
3. Introduction to a new market will be a big priority (again, regardless of athletic power house).
4. Neither Texas nor Oklahoma are not joining the B1G. You can bet the house on that.

Here's the current Big Ten landscape:

View attachment 11711


When you look at the priority the B1G will use to add new schools, my guess is it goes in backwards order of how I listed it.

The top school to add is Kansas --> New market, AAU university, and IS a basketball powerhouse. Kansas will need a new home. If Texas and Oklahoma leave, the Big 12 will cease to exists. In fact, I would be shocked if Kansas is not in the B1G when the dust finally settles from all of this. This also probably eliminates Kansas State from the list (not that they were likely to be a target). If so, here's what the B1G landscape will look like then:

View attachment 11712


From here, there seems to be two schools of thought: pick a school that satisfies academics first, or pick a school that satisfies new market first.

If you are looking at academics first, I think the only real good option is Iowa State (as a lot of you have mentioned). Iowa State is an AAU school, it will be conferenceless after the Big 12 collapses, brings some sports tradition with it, and is a natural geographical fit. However, it really adds nothing marketability-wise. But it's probably still a target for the B1G. If Iowa State were in the B1G, here's the map (from now on, I am assuming Kansas is going to be in the B1G):

View attachment 11713

If the first priority is "new market", I think there are three schools to target. The first is West Virginia. Similarly to Iowa State, it will be conference-less, is a nice geographic fit, and brings its own sports traditions into the mix. It's academic recognition is not that of Iowa State, but it brings in a new market. Here's that map:

View attachment 11709

Another team many have mentioned is Oklahoma State (same attraction as West Virginia):

View attachment 11710


And finally, here are two wild cards to throw in: TCU and Baylor. Although, I have to imagine that would be a stretch. It's a new market, and both bring sports tradition, but academics is a worry, and while adding a Texas team would be great for the market, geographically it's probably too far south. Also, when people think of Texas college sports, it's not like TCU and Baylor are the first two mentioned. But just for fun:

View attachment 11714

At the end of the day, you (the B1G, really) will ask itself which schools make the B1G better overall; whether it's academics, $$$, or athletics. If I had to make a bet on it right now, here's the order of likelihood I think schools join the B1G (you'll notice, they are all Big 12 schools):

1.Kansas
2. Iowa State
3. West Virginia (I can see joining ACC)
4. Oklahoma State
5. Baylor
6. TCU
7. Kansas State
8. Texas Tech (probably not even really in the conversation)
Not gonna happen: Oklahoma or Texas

Just me spending too much time thinking about something that everyone already covered...
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Can’t we just add this Illinois University I’ve been hearing about?
 
#146      
soupy17
TheChief4Life said:
I HAVE to assume this is going to happen sooner than later. Then the question just becomes “what school is #2?”.
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One interesting scenario I've seen is Mizzou joining the B1G, leaving space for OK State to join Texas and Oklahoma in the SEC.

Would be an interesting move as (assuming KU joins) they'd have a couple of built in rivalries here with us and Kansas and some old Big XII history with Nebraska. I don't know if B1G goes for it as it's wouldn't be a wholly new market (St. Louis and KC would theoretically be covered by us and KU), and they'd probably have to make it attractive for Mizzou to leave the cash cow that the SEC is about to become.
 
#148      
GilThorpe
mattcoldagelli said:
I have never been more certain of anything in my life than the fact that West Virginia and Oklahoma State will never be in the B1G.
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I pretty much agree with you , although I am a huge oSu Cowboy fan. many reasons why

that said, I also NEVER in a million years ever saw Rutgers getting admitted to the B1G either
 
#149      
mattcoldagelli
Joel Goodson said:
It'll be Kansas and no one else (out of the B12 remainder), IMO. The other schools don't meet the bar. Could the BIG have 15 teams? Sure, until the ACC's GOR expires.
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That's my POV, too. As has been stated, you don't add teams just to add them, and clearly, it's not like the B1G has been historically bothered by having an odd number of teams.
 
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