Chicago White Sox 2024

#301      
Kinkyfish
Why??????….. do we keep hearing from Sizemore, and Pedro how this team of players “plays hard every game”….”I am proud of these players and how they are going about their business”?
C’mon man…..they are the suckiest team ever….how about a little “we suck and the players are just not getting it done”?
This really blows!!!!!
 
#302      
Roundball Sage
Kinkyfish said:
Why??????….. do we keep hearing from Sizemore, and Pedro how this team of players “plays hard every game”….”I am proud of these players and how they are going about their business”?
C’mon man…..they are the suckiest team ever….how about a little “we suck and the players are just not getting it done”?
This really blows!!!!!
Click to expand...

He has to say these things. This is how Managers have to pretend that their team is better than they really are... and to keep Ownership from getting mad at them for telling something truthful. Can’t have that.

Everyone can plainly see how bad this team is. Sox Ownership has done a magnificent job of creating a civic embarassment and fully disrespecting White Sox fans of all ages.

As for the History Watch...

The White Sox Season is now about 23 weeks old.

Sox have won 31 games. That works out to about 1.3 wins per week.

(The next ‘worst’ teams to the Sox this year in MLB have 51 wins (Colorado, Miami) - 20 more than Sox!).

Sox have four weeks left in the season. At 1.3 wins per week that works out to (being generous) 6 more wins for the season. Sox would finish at 37 wins for the season (with 125 losses).

1916 Philadelphia A’s won 36 and lost 117 (the White Sox were 89-65 that year).

1962 New York Mets won 40 and lost 120 (the White Sox were 85-77 that year).

Will the Sox even win those 6 more games this month? Maybe, if the opposition just has six bad days in them.

It's hard to imagine that any professional franchise could devolve to a level like this -- in any sport, anywhere.
 
#304      
Roundball Sage
IlliniFaninHoosierLand said:
White Sox gonna White Sox:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1831114042548637936
Click to expand...

The White Sox running into each other in left field is a symbol of the entire franchise – lack of communication... lack of someone taking charge... lack of basic talent... lack of direction. The Season in a nutshell.

This once-proud franchise continues to embarrass itself in new ways every day.

They have become so bad that you almost have to feel sorry for these players. But I feel more sorry for us Sox fans. The players are making good money for this. We are not.
 
#308      
Roundball Sage
White Sox players are going to be remembered for being part of this historically-losing team for the rest of their careers -- and well after their playing days when they retire. This will become part of their biographies and career notable marks. But White Sox Ownership is going to be remembered for this Season even more. For this is where things all started for the collapse seen this season. Bad decisions after bad decisions for years.

How did things go bad so fast for the Sox today? Abreu (Team Leader) gone. Anderson (Team Energy) gone. Giolito gone. Cease gone. Jiminez gone. Lopez gone. Kopech gone. That's the heart of your team and what was seen as the future. No adequate replacements ready to move right in and on to the playing field for Sox. Poor choices of Managers to hire. Ran off a popular Sox TV announcer who was smart to leave town before this Season started. Now only yes-men who aren't allowed to be honest about what any fan can see right in front of their face every game. Shopping at the bargain-basement floor to get players... or kids out of the Minors not ready for prime time.

When the Sox were horrible back in 1970 they quickly made changes and turned things around the following Season by winning 23 more games in 1971 and then 8 more beyond that in 1972 (for 87 wins). So in two years after 1970 Sox got 31 more victories per season over the 1970 season.

This was all pre-Reinsdorf. Different leaders back then. The energy quickly returned to the team... and to the Sox fan base. The Sox organization had momentum going but lacked the money they needed to keep on building on that.

Today the Sox have an owner with lots and lots of money. Which he won't spend. Sox fans are discouraged once again and the energy is gone. And there doesn't seem to be a big push to get that stadium deal done right now in a Bears Town.

And if Crochet and Robert are traded away in the off-season... the Sox might lose even more games next Season than this year.

Hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel right now. But... one single White Sox victory is still worth more than all the other teams wins put together (for we in Sox Nation).

Even if next Season the Sox do only win -- one! (Which might happen!?).
 
#309      
Roundball Sage
Update – White Sox History Watch

The 1932 Season for the White Sox is so far the worst total single season for the franchise. Finishing 49-102 for a winning (?) percentage of .325.

Here’s how the 2024 White Sox compare to that dreadful 1932 team...

After 147 Games

1932 – 47 wins, 100 losses

2024 – 33 wins, 114 losses

So the current White Sox at this point in the Season are 14 GAMES WORSE than the worst Sox team of all time.

In Happier Times...

1959 – 90 wins, 57 losses

2005 – 89 wins, 58 losses

The 2024 White Sox Season truly is one for the Ages...
 
#310      
gibb52
I am not a Sox fan (Cardinals) but I hope the Sox FO got a nice collection of prospects in exchange for all the players they traded. If so the pain won't last too long.
 
#311      
Roundball Sage
The geniuses running the White Sox are apparently complaining that revenue for the franchise is down this year because of low home attendance and they will have to cut payroll (!). Hmmm... Let’s unpack that grand nugget stream of corporate wisdom a bit.

If revenue and attendance are down this year it’s because the franchise (deliberately) put a garbage team on the field that loses games all the time and people don’t want to use what’s left of their grocery money to watch that. But are the Sox geniuses trying to blame Sox fans for their own financial shortcomings?

Next, if Sox geniuses cut payroll from this season before next season that means even less talent may be the result for next season which means...

Lots more losing...

Even fewer fans showing up...

Even bigger financial losses...

Further alienating Chicago fans from the White Sox franchise (which could be the Master Plan anyway?)

And...

Maybe lots of calls from Sox geniuses in the off-season to big-deep-pocket-Nashville Cats?

Watch to see if the Sox start playing way more country music during Sox games at the park and on the television.

And if the Sox begin to charge Sox fans to leave the park to go home at night while trying to forget watching another sad loss.
 
#312      
SeattleSlim
Roundball Sage said:
The geniuses running the White Sox are apparently complaining that revenue for the franchise is down this year because of low home attendance and they will have to cut payroll (!). Hmmm... Let’s unpack that grand nugget stream of corporate wisdom a bit.

If revenue and attendance are down this year it’s because the franchise (deliberately) put a garbage team on the field that loses games all the time and people don’t want to use what’s left of their grocery money to watch that. But are the Sox geniuses trying to blame Sox fans for their own financial shortcomings?

Next, if Sox geniuses cut payroll from this season before next season that means even less talent may be the result for next season which means...

Lots more losing...

Even fewer fans showing up...

Even bigger financial losses...

Further alienating Chicago fans from the White Sox franchise (which could be the Master Plan anyway?)

And...

Maybe lots of calls from Sox geniuses in the off-season to big-deep-pocket-Nashville Cats?

Watch to see if the Sox start playing way more country music during Sox games at the park and on the television.

And if the Sox begin to charge Sox fans to leave the park to go home at night while trying to forget watching another sad loss.
Click to expand...
But, … how do you really feel?
 
#313      
EyeoftheIllini
SeattleSlim said:
But, … how do you really feel?
Click to expand...
What amazes me is that someone can advocate for trading two of the more talented players on roster (Crochet and Robert) at trade deadline and then when that didn’t happen suggest not playing either for rest of year to avoid injury, and then complain about lack of talent on field and the mounting losses.

Even if attendance was good, I’d still expect payroll to be down next year. Does tend to happen when rebuilding; and trading Robert — which I expect them to do and probably should — will almost ensure that. Next year isn’t going to be good either. Just have to hope it isn’t as bad as this year and we see some glimpses of progress. First big step will be hiring the manager. If they can get a guy who can work with and relate to younger players, it will be a nice start. Though not sure I have much confidence in that happening. Hope springs eternal though right?
 
#314      
splitter
They must be wondering why attendance is down because the team has a good chance to break an all-time record. If there is a move to Nashville, we may get an expansion team with a chance to break the 2024 record.
Why am i assuming that an expansion team would be worse?
 
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#316      
Roundball Sage
splitter said:
If there is a move to Nashville, we may get an expansion team with a chance to break the 2024 record.
Why am i assuming that an expansion team would be worse?
Click to expand...

Two things are working against an expansion team to replace the Sox. First, the uncertainly about funding a new stadium -- especially with the Bears already working on that. And second... new owners would know they are fighting uphill against the City's and Media's heavily favoring the North Siders (as they have since the 1970s). Maybe there is someone with money willing to take that challenge on. But fresher market cities like Austin and Salt Lake City and Portland and Montreal might have way more appeal for the money guys.

If the Sox ever left it could leave Chicago to be like St. Louis and Philadelphia and Boston -- one team only.

And the overall financial condition of the City does not make Chicago look like a healthy market to the outside World.

It's a damn shame that Sox fans have to be put in this position. Powerless... and just hoping for a good outcome.
 
#317      
Mr. Tibbs
it is very very doubtful Chicago would ever get an expansion team if the Sox left
 
#318      
Illinicpa14
Roundball Sage said:
White Sox players are going to be remembered for being part of this historically-losing team for the rest of their careers -- and well after their playing days when they retire. This will become part of their biographies and career notable marks. But White Sox Ownership is going to be remembered for this Season even more. For this is where things all started for the collapse seen this season. Bad decisions after bad decisions for years.

How did things go bad so fast for the Sox today? Abreu (Team Leader) gone. Anderson (Team Energy) gone. Giolito gone. Cease gone. Jiminez gone. Lopez gone. Kopech gone. That's the heart of your team and what was seen as the future. No adequate replacements ready to move right in and on to the playing field for Sox. Poor choices of Managers to hire. Ran off a popular Sox TV announcer who was smart to leave town before this Season started. Now only yes-men who aren't allowed to be honest about what any fan can see right in front of their face every game. Shopping at the bargain-basement floor to get players... or kids out of the Minors not ready for prime time.

When the Sox were horrible back in 1970 they quickly made changes and turned things around the following Season by winning 23 more games in 1971 and then 8 more beyond that in 1972 (for 87 wins). So in two years after 1970 Sox got 31 more victories per season over the 1970 season.

This was all pre-Reinsdorf. Different leaders back then. The energy quickly returned to the team... and to the Sox fan base. The Sox organization had momentum going but lacked the money they needed to keep on building on that.

Today the Sox have an owner with lots and lots of money. Which he won't spend. Sox fans are discouraged once again and the energy is gone. And there doesn't seem to be a big push to get that stadium deal done right now in a Bears Town.

And if Crochet and Robert are traded away in the off-season... the Sox might lose even more games next Season than this year.

Hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel right now. But... one single White Sox victory is still worth more than all the other teams wins put together (for we in Sox Nation).

Even if next Season the Sox do only win -- one! (Which might happen!?).
Click to expand...
The team they put on the field even to start the year just didn’t have close to enough major league caliber players.

Forget the guys you listed as gone as it’s own item - it’s the next tier of guys on the team gone (think the Aaron bummers of the world that at least were major league caliber players). Instead, it’s stocked with AAA journeymen players mostly without ceilings.
 
#319      
EyeoftheIllini
Illinicpa14 said:
The team they put on the field even to start the year just didn’t have close to enough major league caliber players.

Forget the guys you listed as gone as it’s own item - it’s the next tier of guys on the team gone (think the Aaron bummers of the world that at least were major league caliber players). Instead, it’s stocked with AAA journeymen players mostly without ceilings.
Click to expand...
I agree roster going into the year was bad, but then again that is what I was expecting. White Sox’s farm system was not good enough to rebuild on the fly. I had no problem with trading Bummer. A good middle reliever is a luxury a rebuilding team can’t afford. My problem with the trade was they didn’t get much back in return. Their approach in that trade seemed to be more breadth (numbers) than depth (talent) in order to protect the farm system. So they took flyers on 2 MLB “ready” pitchers, a mediocre journeyman infielder and two farm system depth pieces. One of those depth pieces was former Illini Riley Gowens, who seemingly had a pretty decent year across two levels.

I don’t expect the roster to be any better next year. They are too far away to attempt much with free agency. They likely will and probably should just try to find reclamation projects like DeJong that they can flip at the deadline for prospects. And the farm system still isn’t great — especially with position players.

I think 6 of the top 9 prospects are pitchers, and your top non-pitcher had a pretty bad year. To further illustrate how system lacks depth, Ramos is #12 prospect, and hasn’t shown much since call up. I’m not saying he doesn’t have talent and won’t pan out, but doesn’t look like he’ll provide much punch next year.

So I’m not expecting much better next year. Hopefully players in minors show enough improvement to put them on the radar screen for contributions in 2026. They do have the makings of a good to very good rotation by then even if they trade Crochet. My main worry going forward is I don’t like what Getz has been getting back in return for trades. I thought he did OK with Cease trade, but haven’t been impressed since. In fairness though, when getting mostly minor leaguers in return, it does take a few years to see who won the trade. So maybe I’m wrong. Hopefully I’m wrong about next year being another difficult one too.
 
#320      
Illinicpa14
EyeoftheIllini said:
I agree roster going into the year was bad, but then again that is what I was expecting. White Sox’s farm system was not good enough to rebuild on the fly. I had no problem with trading Bummer. A good middle reliever is a luxury a rebuilding team can’t afford. My problem with the trade was they didn’t get much back in return. Their approach in that trade seemed to be more breadth (numbers) than depth (talent) in order to protect the farm system. So they took flyers on 2 MLB “ready” pitchers, a mediocre journeyman infielder and two farm system depth pieces. One of those depth pieces was former Illini Riley Gowens, who seemingly had a pretty decent year across two levels.

I don’t expect the roster to be any better next year. They are too far away to attempt much with free agency. They likely will and probably should just try to find reclamation projects like DeJong that they can flip at the deadline for prospects. And the farm system still isn’t great — especially with position players.

I think 6 of the top 9 prospects are pitchers, and your top non-pitcher had a pretty bad year. To further illustrate how system lacks depth, Ramos is #12 prospect, and hasn’t shown much since call up. I’m not saying he doesn’t have talent and won’t pan out, but doesn’t look like he’ll provide much punch next year.

So I’m not expecting much better next year. Hopefully players in minors show enough improvement to put them on the radar screen for contributions in 2026. They do have the makings of a good to very good rotation by then even if they trade Crochet. My main worry going forward is I don’t like what Getz has been getting back in return for trades. I thought he did OK with Cease trade, but haven’t been impressed since. In fairness though, when getting mostly minor leaguers in return, it does take a few years to see who won the trade. So maybe I’m wrong. Hopefully I’m wrong about next year being another difficult one too.
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Right - if you even just assume maybe 50% of good prospects actually hit - they’re about 20 prospects short…and beyond older guys looking for a starting job who would want to join this team in free agency the next 3 years.
 
#321      
EyeoftheIllini
Roundball Sage said:
White Sox players are going to be remembered for being part of this historically-losing team for the rest of their careers -- and well after their playing days when they retire. This will become part of their biographies and career notable marks. But White Sox Ownership is going to be remembered for this Season even more. For this is where things all started for the collapse seen this season. Bad decisions after bad decisions for years.

How did things go bad so fast for the Sox today? Abreu (Team Leader) gone. Anderson (Team Energy) gone. Giolito gone. Cease gone. Jiminez gone. Lopez gone. Kopech gone. That's the heart of your team and what was seen as the future. No adequate replacements ready to move right in and on to the playing field for Sox. Poor choices of Managers to hire. Ran off a popular Sox TV announcer who was smart to leave town before this Season started. Now only yes-men who aren't allowed to be honest about what any fan can see right in front of their face every game. Shopping at the bargain-basement floor to get players... or kids out of the Minors not ready for prime time.

When the Sox were horrible back in 1970 they quickly made changes and turned things around the following Season by winning 23 more games in 1971 and then 8 more beyond that in 1972 (for 87 wins). So in two years after 1970 Sox got 31 more victories per season over the 1970 season.

This was all pre-Reinsdorf. Different leaders back then. The energy quickly returned to the team... and to the Sox fan base. The Sox organization had momentum going but lacked the money they needed to keep on building on that.

Today the Sox have an owner with lots and lots of money. Which he won't spend. Sox fans are discouraged once again and the energy is gone. And there doesn't seem to be a big push to get that stadium deal done right now in a Bears Town.

And if Crochet and Robert are traded away in the off-season... the Sox might lose even more games next Season than this year.

Hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel right now. But... one single White Sox victory is still worth more than all the other teams wins put together (for we in Sox Nation).

Even if next Season the Sox do only win -- one! (Which might happen!?).
Click to expand...
I have no idea of your point with what you say about players in paragraph 2. There is not one of those players who you mention that should be on the team right now except maybe Cease

Abreu was an aging, declining player. Astros were dumb enough to give him a three-year, $58.5 million contract. He’s out of baseball right now. They declined Mr. Energy’s option (think it was like $15M) after he had the lowest slugging percentage and OPS in AL among qualifiers in 2023. He likely has plenty of energy as I believe he wasn’t picked up after Marlins released him. Seems like Sox did the right thing in both cases.

All the others were traded — as they should have been. They were all a part of the decline last year. Cease trade was the toughest, but he was coming off a down year and how much would have being on this year’s team hurt his value? They absolutely traded him at the right time and did fairly well in the trade. Thorpe was a top level prospect who and the other 2 prospects were in SD’s top 10. Giolito/Lopez trade brought back Sox #3 prospect as well as an arm. Giolito hasn’t done much (hurt this year I think) since the trade, though Lopez has had a career year this season. But that was after passing through two organizations.

So yes, White Sox ran out a bad roster this year and will likely do so next year. That’s called rebuilding. Unlike your fixation with whether the Sox set record for worst season, I really don’t care. It’s not like anyone would feel better about the team if they only lost 99 games.
 
#322      
EyeoftheIllini
Illinicpa14 said:
Right - if you even just assume maybe 50% of good prospects actually hit - they’re about 20 prospects short…and beyond older guys looking for a starting job who would want to join this team in free agency the next 3 years.
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I’m hopeful we see improvement in 2026. Schultz, Thorpe and Smith could form the nucleus of a pretty good rotation. Cannon seems like he could develop into an OK back of rotation guy. Hopefully by then Quero and Montgomery are positively contributing to every day lineup. Heck, maybe even Vargas has things figured out by then. I didn’t like him as the centerpiece of the Kopech/Fedde trade, but too early to count him out. Can’t be easy to be traded as a rookie, and then to go to a losing team too.

Sox have had two decent drafts in a row. Hopefully they got some position players who can contribute by 2026/2027. Then can start thinking about free agents. Not going to be a fun next year. But I’ll be happy if we see some progress in player development that will bode well for the future.
 
#323      
Roundball Sage
EyeoftheIllini said:
So yes, White Sox ran out a bad roster this year and will likely do so next year. That’s called rebuilding. Unlike your fixation with whether the Sox set record for worst season, I really don’t care. It’s not like anyone would feel better about the team if they only lost 99 games.
Click to expand...

The point is of course that the Sox quickly gutted their roster and replaced them with minor league players destined to lose big. That is not the wisest business plan for success. And my 'fixation' with the worst record was explained months ago when I said that 'history' was the only thing going that this season had. I take no personal joy in how pathetic the Sox are. I am a Sox fan of long generations.

Perhaps I have been too harsh on The Sox Owner? If so, I apologize (?) and let this guy below have his say about this:

Matt Snyder, (today) September 18 – cbssports.com:

“Once the dust settles on the 2024 season, Major League Baseball will officially have a new and undisputed worst team ever: the 2024 Chicago White Sox... We could point to myriad reasons for this, but let's just keep it simple and point one finger where it belongs: Directly at owner Jerry Reinsdorf. The problems with Reinsdorf are all over the place. It's a potpourri of malpractice mixed with incompetence in MLB team ownership... with Reinsdorf, White Sox fans are expected to continue lining his pockets via their tickets and concessions purchases and television viewership and everything else. And he's also entitled to taxpayer money when he feels like he needs to build a new ballpark. If he doesn't get his way, he'll take his team and move! It's kind of a legal avenue to extortion... You, sir, have never done anything with the on-field product that suggests you care one iota about the White Sox fan base... For shame.”

My Comment:

Maybe having a New Yorker who really wanted to buy the Mets buy the White Sox wasn’t the greatest idea for the Sox franchise and Sox fans forty years ago. (Or am I being too tough on poor Jerr?). Chicago has always had a lot of big money people who would have been better to secure the franchise and keep it as a true Chicago institution.

Despite one miracle season when everything fell right... ‘his’ ownership of the Sox has been a disaster. We all know this. But it is coming to the fore and National attention right now with the Sox moving in on history of a kind they never should have ever been approaching.

Sorry, Jerr. Guess we've all been too hard on 'ya...
 
#324      
EyeoftheIllini
Roundball Sage said:
The point is of course that the Sox quickly gutted their roster and replaced them with minor league players destined to lose big. That is not the wisest business plan for success. And my 'fixation' with the worst record was explained months ago when I said that 'history' was the only thing going that this season had. I take no personal joy in how pathetic the Sox are. I am a Sox fan of long generations.

Perhaps I have been too harsh on The Sox Owner? If so, I apologize (?) and let this guy below have his say about this:

Matt Snyder, (today) September 18 – cbssports.com:

“Once the dust settles on the 2024 season, Major League Baseball will officially have a new and undisputed worst team ever: the 2024 Chicago White Sox... We could point to myriad reasons for this, but let's just keep it simple and point one finger where it belongs: Directly at owner Jerry Reinsdorf. The problems with Reinsdorf are all over the place. It's a potpourri of malpractice mixed with incompetence in MLB team ownership... with Reinsdorf, White Sox fans are expected to continue lining his pockets via their tickets and concessions purchases and television viewership and everything else. And he's also entitled to taxpayer money when he feels like he needs to build a new ballpark. If he doesn't get his way, he'll take his team and move! It's kind of a legal avenue to extortion... You, sir, have never done anything with the on-field product that suggests you care one iota about the White Sox fan base... For shame.”

My Comment:

Maybe having a New Yorker who really wanted to buy the Mets buy the White Sox wasn’t the greatest idea for the Sox franchise and Sox fans forty years ago. (Or am I being too tough on poor Jerr?). Chicago has always had a lot of big money people who would have been better to secure the franchise and keep it as a true Chicago institution.

Despite one miracle season when everything fell right... ‘his’ ownership of the Sox has been a disaster. We all know this. But it is coming to the fore and National attention right now with the Sox moving in on history of a kind they never should have ever been approaching.

Sorry, Jerr. Guess we've all been too hard on 'ya...
Click to expand...
Yes, they “gutted” their roster, and it was the smart thing to do. You think holding on to those players would have been a wise business plan? Yeah, paying Abreu and Anderson would have been really smart.

This year’s team would have been no better than last year’s with those players — and the farm system would be worse. You were advocating for Sox to trade Crochet and Robert at the trade deadline, so presumably you understand the concept of rebuilding — and “gutting” your roster is always a part of it. Heck, you thought they didn’t go far enough. But that doesn’t fit your narrative I guess.
 
#325      
splitter
Did not think i needed to use the /S on my last post. Will not use it on this one. Looks like the franchise is going to be rescued by the Navy Seals or they have found a use for Guaranteed Field if the Sox leave.
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