2017 Coaching Carousel

Status
Not open for further replies.
#2,826      
FollowTisdale
ILHoff said:
I was rather saying, what from that article would make anyone think, "Yep, that's the guy"?
Click to expand...

I found nothing in that article except for a guy that knows what he's looking for and sounds like he knows how to build a system. Insignificant anecdotes about not knowing how to use his GPS and calling his assistant to ask him a question means about as little to me as if he separates his whites and colors.

The recruiting grind at UNCW vs a big time power 5 school is apples and oranges.
 
#2,827      
Second and Chalmers
WesterveltVictoryCigar said:
My concern with the Bennett rumors is that part of the reasoning is that he's underpaid relative to his performance. Which makes me think the perceived interest may in fact be him leveraging our interest for a nice raise from UVa.
Click to expand...

That's a great point. And that's something that shrewd AD's are aware of.

You could say the same about Cuonzo, though I think there are two other factors to consider there:

1. Cal might not have the financial resources or the commitment to sports to match.

2. Whereas ultimately Matt Painter blinked when given a better opportunity to leave his alma mater for Mizzou, Cuonzo is probably likely to take yes for an answer if Cal won't meet his terms.
 
#2,828      
illininks
MadIllini4 said:
If I'm Whitman, my first call is Gregg Marshall. Put the full court press on him. He's not staying at Wichita State forever and seems like a guy who would consider, especially with Whitman as AD. Would be a home run. No chance we get Miller or Bennett. Too early for Buzz to leave VT (nor do I want him). I believe Whitman will make a fantastic hire, whomever it is.
Click to expand...

My father in-law lives in Wichita and knows a couple of guys close to Marshall. Said he's really hard on kids in the way he coaches them, and doesn't think that he would get along with higher level recruits who may not be as responsive to overly-tough coaching.

Who knows if his coaching would change if he got more talented kids that might not be responsive to how he coaches now, but I do have concerns about Marshall...
 
#2,829      
Stan217
Hello, first post. I have followed you guys for years and enjoy this forum. I like many here respect and like coach Groce. Has he done enough as a head coach to remain here after this year? I feel this conference is the toughest of all to maintain a consistent winning record year in and out. I was curious to see, that since the year 2000 there were 8 head coaches with a .500 winning percentage or better and out of those 8, three of those are no longer coaching in the conference Ryan, Davis and Weber.

Here are some Big Ten records of some present and former Big Ten head coaches. I included those who were in the conference since 2000.

1-Bo Ryan 172-68 .713,
2-Tom Izzo- 250-112 .691
3-Thad Matta-145-72 .668
4-Matt Painter- 118-83 .587
5-Bruce Weber- 89-65 .578
6-Mike Davis - 55-41 .573
7-John Beilein -91-78 .538
8-Fran McCaffery- 54-54 .500

Below .500
9-Steve Alford - 61-67 .477
10-Tom Crean- 68-83 .450
11-Tommy Amaker- 43-53 .448
12-Tubby Smith- 46-62 .426
13-Chris Collins- 24-36 .400
14-John Groce- 31-47 .397
15-Dan Monson- 44-68 .393
16-Tim Miles- 40-48 .385
17- Bill Carmody- 70-150 .318
18- Ed Dechellis- 41-95 .301
19-Todd Licliter - 15-39 .278

I did not include stats for Maryland, Rutgers or Richard Pitno at Minnesota not enough time in the conference. But, there are some very good coaches on this list that did not have a great winning percentage in this conference. The Big Ten is absolutely brutal. Were all these coaches bad? In this conference Izzo, Matta and Painter are doing it the best year after year. We will see how Mark Turgeon at Maryland does in a few years. If you are looking at the recepie for success in the big ten, those are the coaches that have figured a way to get it done. I am not sure about Groce. But, if you replace him I believe Cuonzo Martin can be a Matt Painter type.
 
#2,830      
Second and Chalmers
ILHoff said:
I don't see this article as a huge ringing endorsement. I appreciate his recruiting philosophy on getting the right fit, but he came across as a bit unorganized. He didn't have the directions to his game mapped out in advance and left his player sheet in the car. Those sort of orginizational skills and attention to detail are things I would be looking for in a head coach. Obviously, those are some nitpicky things, but I can't see how that article sells people on him as being ready for a high major job. I thought the Izzo quotes were more telling.
Click to expand...

That's mid major basketball. His basketball ops department is probably one dude making next to no money.

The question is more, if he gets major conference resources, does he know how to marshal them into a well-oiled machine from an operations perspective? That's where that Lousiville experience is valuable on the resume, not just from learning coaching on-court, but from being part of a basketball operation that's that big and that successful.

This is another reason Lovie was such a coup. Whitman wanted to expand the football staff, and he got someone who had been in charge of a large NFL operation and run it well.

Keatts can be the Nutty Professor (an exagerration, obviously), but it's about hiring great people behind the scenes and developing mutual trust with them.

This is the stuff that Whitman finds out that we can't know
 
#2,831      
CAHALL15
OrangeAndBlues said:
How about Keatt's Kingdom?


My kingdom for a point guard.
Click to expand...
How about this for a collective college head coaching record: 324-41. Do you know what's more impressive than that? While at Hargrave Military Academy, he recruited 20 different eventual NBA players. He clearly can identify talent.
OrangeAndBlues said:
He is, according to wikipedia, the winningest coach in Winthrop history.

And, ya know... they beat us.
Click to expand...
Uh, he coaches at Wichita State, not Winthrop.
illininks said:
My father in-law lives in Wichita and knows a couple of guys close to Marshall. Said he's really hard on kids in the way he coaches them, and doesn't think that he would get along with higher level recruits who may not be as responsive to overly-tough coaching.

Who knows if his coaching would change if he got more talented kids that might not be responsive to how he coaches now, but I do have concerns about Marshall...
Click to expand...

The guy wins. I'll take structure and tough love all day if it leads to wins.
 
#2,836      
OrangeAndBlues
It was just a joke on the "My kingdom for a horse" line and the fact that we need point guards... I wasn't saying Keatts is a bad plan.
 
Last edited:
#2,837      
DMan42
CAHALL15 said:
How about this for a collective college head coaching record: 324-41. Do you know what's more impressive than that? While at Hargrave Military Academy, he recruited 20 different eventual NBA players. He clearly can identify talent.

Uh, he coaches at Wichita State, not Winthrop.


The guy wins. I'll take structure and tough love all day if it leads to wins.
Click to expand...
I don't think it's just about being tough on the kids. I don't think he is the best with boosters, media, etc. A school has to understand that going in. He wins though.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
 
#2,838      
LurkLongandProsper
Stan217 said:
Hello, first post. I have followed you guys for years and enjoy this forum. I like many here respect and like coach Groce. Has he done enough as a head coach to remain here after this year? I feel this conference is the toughest of all to maintain a consistent winning record year in and out. I was curious to see, that since the year 2000 there were 8 head coaches with a .500 winning percentage or better and out of those 8, three of those are no longer coaching in the conference Ryan, Davis and Weber.

Here are some Big Ten records of some present and former Big Ten head coaches. I included those who were in the conference since 2000.

1-Bo Ryan 172-68 .713,
2-Tom Izzo- 250-112 .691
3-Thad Matta-145-72 .668
4-Matt Painter- 118-83 .587
5-Bruce Weber- 89-65 .578
6-Mike Davis - 55-41 .573
7-John Beilein -91-78 .538
8-Fran McCaffery- 54-54 .500

Below .500
9-Steve Alford - 61-67 .477
10-Tom Crean- 68-83 .450
11-Tommy Amaker- 43-53 .448
12-Tubby Smith- 46-62 .426
13-Chris Collins- 24-36 .400
14-John Groce- 31-47 .397
15-Dan Monson- 44-68 .393
16-Tim Miles- 40-48 .385
17- Bill Carmody- 70-150 .318
18- Ed Dechellis- 41-95 .301
19-Todd Licliter - 15-39 .278

I did not include stats for Maryland, Rutgers or Richard Pitno at Minnesota not enough time in the conference. But, there are some very good coaches on this list that did not have a great winning percentage in this conference. The Big Ten is absolutely brutal. Were all these coaches bad? In this conference Izzo, Matta and Painter are doing it the best year after year. We will see how Mark Turgeon at Maryland does in a few years. If you are looking at the recepie for success in the big ten, those are the coaches that have figured a way to get it done. I am not sure about Groce. But, if you replace him I believe Cuonzo Martin can be a Matt Painter type.
Click to expand...

I like this first post! Welcome :)

An important thing to note when looking at those .500 coaches is how they've done at their next stop(s). Part of your post seemed to imply that part of the picture is the difficulty of the Big Ten in particular, but I think the only coach from that pool who has gone elsewhere in the P5 and done well is Steve Alford, and he's on a warm seat because of standards at UCLA. Many of those coaches did get picked up elsewhere immediately after, implying ADs in other conferences respect those records even if they are insufficient in the B10, but the Tubby Smith / Amaker / Weber even types haven't gone on to be excellent in other conferences, rather sitting around the bubble tier they were at their best here.

DMan42 said:
I don't think it's just about being tough on the kids. I don't think he is the best with boosters, media, etc. A school has to understand that going in. He wins though.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

The Koch Brothers seem to like him quite a bit
 
#2,841      
dmac279
Second and Chalmers said:
That's a great point. And that's something that shrewd AD's are aware of.

You could say the same about Cuonzo, though I think there are two other factors to consider there:

1. Cal might not have the financial resources or the commitment to sports to match.

2. Whereas ultimately Matt Painter blinked when given a better opportunity to leave his alma mater for Mizzou, Cuonzo is probably likely to take yes for an answer if Cal won't meet his terms.
Click to expand...

Makes sense to me, I'd do the same thing.
 
#2,842      
skyIdub
Rob07 said:
Great post. Absolutely damning. We all now know Groce is not the guy, we cannot keep him, and this data shows it.
Click to expand...

I can't imagine a competent AD of a program like ours reading this data and deciding to continue with this direction. This is damning evidence. Barring an amazing turnaround, I can't really envision Groce will be here next season.
Stranger things have happened though.
:chief:
 
#2,843      
89illinigrad
OrangeAndBlues said:
How about Keatt's Kingdom?


My kingdom for a point guard.
Click to expand...
Not to be a Debbie Downer, but how bout we dispense with the nicknames until (1) he's hired and (2) he proves himself worthy of a nickname
We all know how well that has turned out for JFG.

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk
 
#2,844      
LurkLongandProsper
89illinigrad said:
Not to be a Debbie Downer, but how bout we dispense with the nicknames until (1) he's hired and (2) he proves himself worthy of a nickname
We all know how well that has turned out for JFG.

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Message board nicknames are whatever, just don't print the shirts
 
#2,845      
The Pontiff
mhuml32 said:
The opposition came in his last year at UTK, with a team that had high expectations and disappointed, (started 15-10, didn't beat a ranked team all season) then lucked into the tourney, and got even more luck when they faced a 11 seed (Iowa), 6 seed (UMass), and a 14 seed (Mercer) to make the sweet sixteen. This was a team that was supposed to be a contender for the SEC title (behind Florida but equal to Kentucky).
Click to expand...
Wonder then how that team ended up #10 on KenPom that season.
 
#2,847      
The Pontiff
ChiefIllini said:
Is Mick Cronin another one of those pie in the sky names? I think he's more attainable than Sean Miller or Tony Bennett, but probably pretty high up there, especially considering his extremely deep ties to Cincy (Born & raised there + Alma Mater).

Similarly, Is Chris Holtmann's relationship with Groce too strong to pull him away? He's also a guy thats seeing massive success, so hes probably in that pipe dream pool too.

I'd still list those guys as the most attainable A+ hire's out there (although you could argue Holtmann is still a little unproven).

To me there's a lot of guys who pop up on here that just seem one season away from being a target. Musselman, Keatts, Mueller, McCall, Wade, etc. Just too inexperienced to be 100% in on. I'd argue all those guys have a better HC track record than Groce did, but Groce was considered an elite recruiter. If we are reaching into the mid-major riser's pool my vote is for Keatts then Musselman.
Click to expand...
Great call on Cronin. Six straight NCAAs and on his way to a seventh.

But I'm not sold on Holtmann at all. Record-wise, he's having a solid year, but I'd be a bit concerned with them apparently seeming inconsistent. Butler is 5-1 against ranked teams this season, but then have found a way to lose to a 7-13 Indiana St. and a 9-12 St. Johns club. They even just struggled with last-place DePaul, barely beating them in OT last weekend. And at this point, just two years into the job, it's hard to evaluate how effectively he can recruit and if he has the ability to resuscitate a program, something he hasn't done given he basically slid into a rising program that was built by Brad Stevens.
 
#2,848      
Illini4Reel
Could Brad Stevens actually be shown the door this year? Would it be too late for us?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back