bdutts
- Houston, Texas
I agree.
MLB Thread
bdutts
- Houston, Texas
Looks like I can't edit my "I agree" post. My point wasn't necessarily to compare Bogaerts to Arraez, it was more comparing batting title guys to mashers. I think people will know more about Kyle Schwarber than Arraez, even though Arraez has done something no one else has done.
At this point in his career, Bogaerts is a good player but not a star. That is where we agree.
Yep, and that was the point of my original post — Bogaerts isn’t a star and if you’re going to add a name to list of Padre stars it should be Arraez with his 3 straight batting titles. In doing so though, I know full well (and think I might have put it in OP) that no one is tuning in to see Arraez.
Power and home runs are the catnip for the casual fan. There is a reason ESPN used to show every home run on Baseball Tonight or Sportscenter. Don’t do the same thing for stolen bases now do they. Funny thing is for me (and guessing for at least some other real, long-time baseball fans) the emphasis on home runs and the corresponding acceptance of strikeouts has made the game worse and nearly unwatchable. I’d also add in the emphasis on power throwing (not sure in a lot of cases you can call it pitching) and SPs walking what routinely seems like 3-6 batters in 5 innings.
Cubs fans my age certainly remember Dave Kingman and his penchant for striking out. But as a fan that was made tolerable by the fact there weren’t 8 other hitters in the lineup just as likely to strikeout and Kingman could hit HRs. The year he won HR crown with 48 HRs, he struck out 131 times to also lead the league. This year 76 players had more than that 131 including 2 with 200+. Thing is 48 of those players had half as many or less HRs than Kong that year, 22 didn’t get out of teens and 1 didn’t even get to double digits. I’m sorry but that is sad.
Thankfully, the pitch clock and recent rule changes have made the game watchable again. I for one are very happy about that. Would love to see fewer strikeouts and walks, but I think that ship has sailed. OK, stepping down from my soapbox — now everyone off my yard.
bdutts
- Houston, Texas
totally agree with this take!
I never think of strikeouts when I think about Kingman. HRs! I remember a pitch that he was way in front of, already made his stride, on his front foot, ball is a slow breaking ball, way low, way outside almost on the ground. Way off balance. With only his left hand still on the bat he swats at it, and it goes over the fence for a HR. HRs bouncing 2 blocks down the street. Running through Johnny Bench at home. Bench held on to the ball and Kingman was out. The dugout was celebrating the out like mad when he strutted in. Bench was glaring that direction. That's what I think of with Kingman.
I guess we do what God gave us the tools to do.
There are so many ballplayers that are one-dimensional. The good hitter that is bad with the glove. The great glove man who can’t hit. The good hitting outfielder with the lousy arm. The great-fielding center-fielder with the gun arm who can’t hit a lick. The pitcher with the great arm who is wild and walks too many. The pitcher who can’t throw 98 and has to fool the hitter any way he can to stay with the ball club.. and still ends up with an ERA over 5. The good hitter (when he makes contact) that still can’t figure out the strike zone and swings at bad pitches.
And the Manager who makes the bad move at the worst time in the game. And the brilliant manager who seems psychic and who makes the right switches that secure victory.
We all do what it is that we can do. So, what is the point here? This...
The truly great ball player is the guy who can do it all. It is only they who deserve the name Great. The good/great hitter who's also a slick fielder. The guy who knows the strike zone. The clutch guy who gets the key hit at the right time. The good club leader who leads by example and is a great guy in the clubhouse. These kinds of guys truly are worth the kind of massive money being given to MLB players today.
And there is that guy today in Dodger Blue who truly is a multi-generational one-of-a-kind. The Michael Jordan of the Diamond. The guy who can kill you with his bat and throw the ball by you from the bump. And who makes it all look so easy.
These baseball savants just play the Game at a level higher than everyone else. And of the thousands of guys every year trying their best to ever make an MLB roster... the number of guys who can really do it all you can count on one hand... or two hands at most in any given season.
But hey.. if a guy who strikes out a lot happens to hit a long one for my favorite ball club to win the ball game? I guess I won't complain...
pruman91
- Paducah, Ky
Tipsheet: Playoff baseball evolves into bullpen war as starting pitchers take back seat
They days of Bob Gibson going the distance in playoff games are long gone. These days relievers rule the postseason.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
The league office hates this, but unlike pace of play issues it's pretty hard to come up with a workable solution.Tipsheet: Playoff baseball evolves into bullpen war as starting pitchers take back seat
They days of Bob Gibson going the distance in playoff games are long gone. These days relievers rule the postseason.www.stltoday.com
Didn’t read article as it asked for subscription, but I miss the days of Gibson when it wasn’t really a rarity for the starting pitcher to also be the finishing pitcher. Obviously Gibson was great, but plenty of other SPs in that era threw complete games. Today, not so much. Heck, they had to create a new stat in the mid-1980s to try and measure the effectiveness of a SP because CG weren’t as common. And this year they were truly a rarity with I believe only 28 thrown. Didn’t need “quality start” to tell you whether guys like Gipson and Jenkins did their jobs.Tipsheet: Playoff baseball evolves into bullpen war as starting pitchers take back seat
They days of Bob Gibson going the distance in playoff games are long gone. These days relievers rule the postseason.
Today versus 1968 and 1969 (Gibson’s 2 best years) aren’t even close when it comes to SP. Gibson threw over 300 innings in both those years. This year the leading 4 pitchers threw between 200 and 210 innings. This year 28 CGs across major league baseball. That’s the same number Gibson had during each of those seasons. And crazy thing is, he only led the league one of those two years.
bdutts
- Houston, Texas
Not only did MLB go from 4 starting pitchers to 5 starting pitchers, but now many teams end up using the "bullpen start" where guys pitch 2 inning max.
I wonder if the move from 4 to 5 coincided with less off days...
Definitely has had an impact. The move to max effort on just about every pitch has had a huge impact too — both in the development of pitchers in minors and performance at the major league level. Guys make it to the majors with far fewer starts of 6 innings or more in minors and often with just one or two ML ready pitches. They just don’t know how to pitch as well because they don’t have the arsenal to get through the lineup more than twice if that, nor do they have the experience to work out of trouble.
I don’t know what Gibson topped out at velocity wise, but his fastball was plenty quick and you rarely saw him throwing with max effort though him falling off mound to glove side might have made it look like he was. Only pitcher around that era who threw with max effort that I can think of was Koufax. And the old adage that you better get to the starter early now isn’t as true because now there isn’t a lot beyond “early” these days. Quality start is now at least 6 innings and 3 or fewer ER I believe. In the 68/69 seasons, I think Gibson only pitched as few as 6 innings once and 7 innings a couple of times — across both seasons. And I think he had 6 or 7 CG of more than 9 innings.
On my king list of favorite baseball quotes is what Tim McCarver said about Gibson:
“Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher I’ve ever seen. He always pitches on the day the other team doesn’t score any runs.”
All of this made me consider Fergie Jenkins, so I googled. My Dad (Great Grandpa) would get frustrated with Jenkins because he would pitch hard until the Cubs had a good lead, then he would go into the, "here it is hit it" mode. He didn't work so hard, he would pitch to contact when he had the lead. He would knuckle down if the other team started to come back.
Anyway 267 complete games in the majors. Also this copy and paste.
"From 1967-72, Jenkins won 20 or more games each year, averaging 306 innings pitched. He also threw 140 complete games over that span."
Might also explain the higher batting averages back in the day.
Anyway 267 complete games in the majors. Also this copy and paste.
"From 1967-72, Jenkins won 20 or more games each year, averaging 306 innings pitched. He also threw 140 complete games over that span."
Might also explain the higher batting averages back in the day.
I'm going to interrupt this thread for a moment. Just because I can (hi Dan, lol) and there is no appropriate place to post this anyways.... My 2 nephews just won the Class L Illinois State Baseball Championship this afternoon in Centralia. They beat Marion Jr HS. Congrats to Jax, Bentley, and the rest of the team from Franklin Park Middle School Boys Baseball team for Winning their 1st Title in school history!!!! I tried like heck yesterday to find a flight that would get me into St Louis to attend this game today, but no dice....
Also a shoutout to the Franklin Park Middle School Girls Softball team who also made it to the Championship game but were not able to pull it out and finished in 2nd place.....
Also a shoutout to the Franklin Park Middle School Girls Softball team who also made it to the Championship game but were not able to pull it out and finished in 2nd place.....
pruman91
- Paducah, Ky
Tipsheet: Padres, Dodgers ready to unload their bullpens in Game 5 showdown
The Padres-Dodgers playoff series has been predictably wild, so fans are buckling up for the decisive Game 5 in the NLDS.
Fun pitching matchup in game tonight. First time two Japanese players will face each as SPs in postseason.
Kike Hernandez career regular season OPS: .713. Career post-season OPS: .886.
He’s like the anti-Clayton Kershaw.
He’s like the anti-Clayton Kershaw.
