Unless you are Duke or Kentucky... which we are not.
I really wish this "players that want to play here" narrative would die a quiet death.
Underwood keeps fueling that phrase, he just said it again yesterday. It is sort of a rejection response.
Unless you are Duke or Kentucky... which we are not.
I really wish this "players that want to play here" narrative would die a quiet death.
Sure but you don't think tending downward in wins and going 4-14 in conference make it more difficult to recruit?
The situation that Holtmann inherited at OSU is radically different than what Underwood walked into at Illinois. Holtmann might be a better coach, but comparing the two jobs isn't just apples and oranges, it's road apples and oranges.And isn’t Holtmann a new hire
Is BU a right guy, but not the right hire? Plenty of examples of new hires who are trending higher and faster that it’s not an egregious question.
If we think it has ever been anything but ABI, you are kidding yourself. Go back to the year before the Flyin Illini. We lost out on the top 4 in-state prospects that year - LaPhonso went to ND, Anderson went to IU, Acie Earl and Ray Thompson went to Iowa. Andy Kaufmann was a pretty good player, but not in the same class as these guys. I guess we also recruited PJ Bowman that year so that's something. The year before that Marcus Liberty was set to go to Syracuse until persuaded otherwise. the year after Deon was set to go to Iowa until persuaded otherwise. In 1998 we landed Frankie, but lost out on Q, Simmons, Wright, Lance Williams and a few other top guys I can't remember. In 1980 we landed Bontemps and Richardson, but lost on Doc Rivers, Isaiah, Terry Cummings and others.
I'm not sure what it is, but with rare exceptions we really struggle in Chicago with the top guys and get nothing out of St. Louis. You can pretty well list the MCDAA caliber guys on two hands - EJ, Winters, Lib, Deon, Nick, Hamilton, Dee, Richmond. Our bread and butter has been Peoria talent with a few out of staters and underrated guys like Gill, Battle, Augustine and Head. With a better coach Nunn, Hill, etc would have fit the same mold.
What we saw with Liddell is discouraging, but perfectly in keeping with UI history. It would have been more surprising had he chosen Illinois
Underwood keeps fueling that phrase, he just said it again yesterday. It is sort of a rejection response.
The situation that Holtmann inherited at OSU is radically different than what Underwood walked into at Illinois. Holtmann might be a better coach, but comparing the two jobs isn't just apples and oranges, it's road apples and oranges.
We finished above them both in wins, and in B1G standings in 2016-2017. I'm still on board with our current coach and team, though. Just interesting to see other coaches come in and light it up on the recruiting trail right away. We haven't had that since Self. That's a long time ago.
I believe they were referring to Chicagoland talent.You failed to list MCDAA players Frankie, Griff and Cookie, so you're on to a third hand, lol. Note, Ayo wasn't MCDAA, but probably should've been and had a big impact on the US U19 team this year. BTW, the idea that we'll ever get all the top Illnois players is laughable.
We finished above them both in wins, and in B1G standings in 2016-2017. I'm still on board with our current coach and team, though. Just interesting to see other coaches come in and light it up on the recruiting trail right away. We haven't had that since Self. That's a long time ago.
And that's the only season since 2009 where that was the case. OSU had the BTPOY last year, and we had nothing close to that. They won 11 more games than we did in the conference. You'd either cry or laugh your butt off if you had the chance to compare facilities at the two schools.We finished above them both in wins, and in B1G standings in 2016-2017. I'm still on board with our current coach and team, though. Just interesting to see other coaches come in and light it up on the recruiting trail right away. We haven't had that since Self. That's a long time ago.
Just interesting to see other coaches come in and light it up on the recruiting trail right away. We haven't had that since Self.
Yes, and Hill had not signed an LOI as it is often a misconception (as compared to Frazier). The change happened during the spring of his junior year, he went through a full recruiting main summer season but still ended up at UI.
The situation that Holtmann inherited at OSU is radically different than what Underwood walked into at Illinois. Holtmann might be a better coach, but comparing the two jobs isn't just apples and oranges, it's road apples and oranges.
All of the rankings reflected in that graph are the final ones, the ones immediately upon entering college. That's not giving Jereme Richmond credit for being a top 5 player in the country, nor Myke Henry credit for being a 5 star.
But you're right that we haven't always scouted well for our system, we have often had positional and class imbalances, some of our brightest talents haven't finished their careers here, and our player development has been nothing short of horrific. That is EXACTLY my point.
What we have had, what that data makes utterly indisputable, is wins on the recruiting trail of highly ranked players at a very high competitive level in conference. We HAVE gotten the hat-off-the-table internet validation, that sweet elixir to which Loyalty is addicted, more so than most of our competitors. And we've done NOTHING with it. We've lit it on fire and thrown it in the dumpster, across now three different coaching administrations.
I guess I'm as guilty as any of you, because I'm as desperate to see the light come on in some fellow posters' heads as most of you are to see a narratively meaningful recruit see your inner beauty, reject the popular girls and choose you to dance with at the prom.
I have mentioned the same thing many times, Groce overachieved his first year, but other than that we were a steady NIT team pretty much his entire era, which was not enough. Asking, and expecting, to take a steady NIT team and make it a steady NCAA team is not the impossibility that some present it to be. This has nothing to do with Holtmann. And please let's not start again with the "we all knew" we were going to be terrible last year and end up 4-14 because the facts do not support such assertion, neither is it a valid excuse for not doing better right now in recruiting, independent of Holtmann.
Holtmann has nothing to do with some of our deficiencies right now. BU needs a recruiting turnaround asap, gain some momentum. It is also imperative IMO that we drastically improve this season and challenge for an NCAA bid, even if we fall short and just make NIT.
Being a realist doesn’t mean we’re not fans and supportive of the team.I'm gonna go ahead and check out of the Underwood sucks, well never win circle jerk thread. Have a great time boys. Meanwhile us other fans will be rooting for the guys signed up to play in O & B.
BU needs a recruiting turnaround asap, gain some momentum. It is also imperative IMO that we drastically improve this season and challenge for an NCAA bid, even if we fall short and just make NIT.
Weber listened to complainers on the internet, and that's why he doesn't coach here anymore.
And again, this idea that it was completely knowable that Mike Shaw and Brian Carlwell were totally useless players from the moment they committed is such revisionist garbage it barely merits a response. That's not what a single soul said at the time and you perfectly well know it.
Anything, ANYTHING, throw any combination of words you can find at the truth to make it go away and let Loyalty get back to holding up a boombox outside the house of whoever the next Diane Court is. This one will understand how special we are.
IllinoisLloydDobler.com
Who said that Holtmann had anything to do with it? I was responding to someone who appears to have been comparing the success Holtmann is having with what Underwood has accomplished, and I stand by what I said. Recruiting to OSU is far easier right now than recruiting to Illinois, and if you're expectation is that we can do what OSU is doing right now, you're going to be disappointed.I have mentioned the same thing many times, Groce overachieved his first year, but other than that we were a steady NIT team pretty much his entire era, which was not enough. Asking, and expecting, to take a steady NIT team and make it a steady NCAA team is not the impossibility that some present it to be. This has nothing to do with Holtmann. And please let's not start again with the "we all knew" we were going to be terrible last year and end up 4-14 because the facts do not support such assertion, neither is it a valid excuse for not doing better right now in recruiting, independent of Holtmann.
Holtmann has nothing to do with some of our deficiencies right now. BU needs a recruiting turnaround asap, gain some momentum. It is also imperative IMO that we drastically improve this season and challenge for an NCAA bid, even if we fall short and just make NIT.
I believe they were referring to Chicagoland talent.
I find it interesting that pessimists always call themselves realists. Not saying that applies to you, just in general.Being a realist doesn’t mean we’re not fans and supportive of the team.
Completely disagree. Practice facilities help a ton. That's where they spend most of their time. I'd argue that it matters more than the actual playing facility, which sometimes isn't as nice due to tradition. Also, I also think that social media is a big reason why these "shiny toys" are important because it is so easy to compare schools.Shiny new toys are nice but only a (small) part of the formula. We went 339-77 in Huff Hall including 9-0 the year before we moved to the Assembly Hall. That gym that Duke plays in now is just a slightly larger version of Huff. We are 13-17 in B10 home games since the $160M renovation on Assembly Hall. Putting a little lipstick on our practice facility won't hurt, but it probably won't help much either. Henson's teams practiced in Huff or Old Men's Gym when they were available. Other times they used high school facilities. They didn't have a dedicated practice facility.