Deleted member 569417
D
Guest
Why would you be angry about anti-Guentherites? Not an Illinois athletics fan, I take it?
Illini Basketball 2019-2020
- Status
Why would you be angry about anti-Guentherites? Not an Illinois athletics fan, I take it?
Turned Leron Black into what should have been an All-Big Ten forward. Has had 3 Big Ten All-Freshman players.
SampsonRelpenk
- Edwardsville, IL
Given why Illinois was able to poach Underwood from OSU after one year, this is an extremely bold move by Whitman to say the least. But, I guess 26-39 speaks for itself.
Care to share a little more of what you may know?
Was BU opposed to the move, the timing of the move, or the reasoning behind the move? For example, which one of these best characterizes your version of the events?
Scenario 1
Whitman: Coach you're staff is going to add Gentry in Walker's spot.
BU: That's my decision, I'd rather have Walker than Gentry
Whitman: You can keep Walker but he's done recruiting
BU: Fumes but accepts it
Scenario 2
Whitman: Coach you're staff is going to add Gentry in Walker's spot.
BU: That's my decision, I don't hate the idea, but you're basically hanging Walker out to dry given the timing.
Whitman: OK, we keep Walker for now, but he's taking a demotion. We'll spin it as a positive.
BU: Fumes but accepts it
Scenario 3
Whitman: Walker done messed up. He failed to start a new pot of coffee when he took the last drop, and this is the last time! He's done!
BU: Don't you think you're overreacting?
Whitman: You've seen what the NCAA is willing to sanction us for. That's text book lack of institutional control. I can't even count on a hot cup of coffee. You think Eddie Money has to put up with this s*@#!
BU: Josh settle down, UNC didn't even have their kids taking classes.
Whitman: We have to do something. Sad! But he's demoted. Fill out the position however you like.
BU: Fumes, thinks Whitman is overreacting, is wondering about his future at Illinois but is excited to bring Gentry on board.
Illwinsagain
- Cary, IL
Well done!
Neither was the prior series. We whipped them pretty well.
Interesting point of view. I think of guys coming in as freshman as having that talent from the get-go. So I look at Ayo, and I don't give BU credit for how good his freshman season was. Since I didn't see these guys at their opening week of practice, I'm missing their true starting point.
If he lights a fire under Kipper, I'll give BU a ton of credit (as well as Kipper, of course). Getting inconsistent players to up their game is something I usually see only in great coaches. Great coaches seem to have a read on a player's psychology & and what works for them, that average coaches miss.
John Groce-->Brad Underwood, Tim Beckman/Not Ideal Cubit--->Lovie Smith. No matter how you spin it, those are two major upgrades in revenue sports. There is a decent amount of luck involved in hiring guys too, but it would've taken an at least competent AD to make those moves. Whether or not they both fail, I still think Whitman handled both hirings about as perfect as you could expect.
I get we all know UIUC is a P5 conference school and has the resources to have great athletic programs, but the hole both revenue sports were/are in is massive. I get I'm making excuses, and yes hindsight should be used in these hires (there were obvious question marks about these coaches, but literally every candidate ever has question marks), but Whitman put them in a position to succeed.
As for the other athletic programs, WBB is still looking poor, but again at least a halfway decent hire. Volleyball was about as close to a national championship appearance as you can get. Golf has continued to be a premier sport here.
The fundraising has been good, push for D1 hockey is great, and major upgrades to facilities, both in football and in some of the smaller sports.
I'm fine with people saying Whitman hasn't set the AD world on fire or grading him at least average, but underwhelming seems too strong of a word for me. I get results matter most, and on list of priorities, revenue sports are about 1-50, but theres gotta be context when you look at Whitman's tenure so far. He's made all the right moves. One of the biggest parts of being an AD is deciding when to make changes. Whitman hasn't (publicly) had to do anything like that yet, so he gets an incomplete grade from me.
Deleted member 569417
D
Guest
What if you spun it by Winning Percentage?
Deleted member 569417
D
Guest
Whitman didn't tell Underwood who to hire.
Correct. Maybe the only saving grace is BU got his guy this late in the game.
He has spent a lot more than he has raised though.
Changes: Cubit for Smith, Groce for Underwood.
Can't give him a grade yet until we know if these coaches are successful and I think it is too early to tell.
BU's recruiting gets a pretty high grade from me. Two all BIG freshman, Giorgi, Dre, and Kofi. Probably going to add Alan and Tevian to that list by the end of the year and possibly Verdonk. However, he hasn't proven he can coach until we start having some defensive success IMO. Hopefully that happens this year as he now has the pieces.
Deleted member 29907
D
Guest
What if you spun it by Damage to the Programs?
Black was pretty mediocre for 3 years, then blossomed under this staff. If you aren't giving the staff credit for what he became his senior year, I'd say you're dead wrong.
sacraig
- The desert
I mean, if you read between the lines here assuming your info is accurate...
Without having a replacement ready to go, Whitman basically demoted Walker to a non-recruiting role while allowing him to remain with the team in a role that still involves coaching the players. To me, that implies that whatever the problem was, it is recruiting related. Not necessarily recruiting performance related, but recruiting nevertheless.
mattcoldagelli
- Script Illinois Enthusiast
Good?
None of this matters if football and basketball aren't good.* We need to spend to support those programs. Hate to make this as cliched as "gotta spend money to make money" but there's few places where that applies more purely than college athletics.
*Admittedly biased Hockey Guy opinion, but I also think the hockey effort matters. All those suburbs that we moan about having just as much connection to Iowa City as Champaign? A lot of hockey families in those places.
sacraig
- The desert
That is how investments work. The key question is about whether and when it pays off over the longer term.
Well, I was talking about at the time of hire. Underwood and Lovie were major upgrades when compared to Groce/Beckman.
BU's HC record was (much) better than Groce's. Lovie was never a college HC before, but he was just over 500 as the Bears HC. Beckman is below 500 as a college HC.
Definitely fair, but you gotta spend money to make money right? It's about spending it correctly. We'll see.
I get it....I was just trying to hint at that money isn't coming in like people think.
Why? What was Walker helping deliver recruiting wise?
The reality is as of now Whitman is a far better representative and also person in general for the university. Upgrades aside, coaching changes aside, sports additions aside, fund raising aside...his image and the state of the program that he walked into is all that still matters as of now. He was a fresh new qualified image that the school needed, the stale state of the program needed this the most. As of now all the "aside" issues are I think working to our favor with some yet to be determined a success as of yet. That said the university and the program is in a much better place because of Whitman the professional and the person, than it was prior to him being here!
- Status