Conference Realignment

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#51      
IllinoisssssssVarsity
mattcoldagelli said:
I kind of disagree?

There's the basketball play: take Kansas (the points raised previously have merit, although I think some are being a little hyperbolic on academics - they're comparable to Nebraska) - use them to sell North Carolina (or, why not? Duke).

There's the (valid) "this is all about football" approach: just go get Clemson. Sounds crazy? Why? They're a land grant, top-75 school and frankly, wouldn't be leaving a ton behind in terms of ACC football, and would get to play OSU every year. If you get them, you'd have your pick of Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech, or Virginia coming too (assuming UNC wants to stand pat).

The old "hey, you're a lot like us" approach from the last go-around: big land-grants with academic cred - Virginia Tech and Clemson fit this bill. Iowa State kinda technically does, but I don't think that would ever happen.

The "kill the ACC" maneuver: basically take what the SEC is doing to the Big XII and do it to the ACC. Duke/Clemson? UNC/UVA? Florida State/Miami? They all kind of work for you.

Have fun out in the cold, Notre Dame!
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I kinda like a combination of things after reading your post. It would be crazy but awesome if the big went all out blue blood and tv market.

Blue blood: snag Clemson UNC Duke and Kansas
Market: georgia tech and Boston College

20 teams. 10 team divisions in mostly a new/old member east/west split.

East: Clemson, Duke, UNC, BC, GaTech, Maryland, Rutgers, Penn st and probably Michigan/MSU.

West: Everyone else

The tough part here is making sure Michigan and Ohio state play every year.

Sit back and cash checks.
 
#52      
RedRocksIllini
Champaign Toast said:
Virginia, North Carolina/Duke, and Georgia Tech are attractive; but I hear it'll be near impossible to get them out of the ACC. Iowa State and Pitt don't add new TV markets. Oklahoma State and Kansas State may discourage Big Ten presidents from an academic standpoint. Kansas is great at basketball, but poor at football--and yet I think Kansas could be the most likely fit overall among Big 12 schools.

And while my dream scenario is that original member University of Chicago jumps back into the Big Ten 75 years after it left, I know that won't happen.

Thinking slightly outside the box, I think these two overlooked schools are worthy of this conversation because they open up big new TV markets (... because what I remember hearing most during the last round of expansion was, the conference desired new TV markets):

Boston College (Boston is the 10th largest TV market in the country)
Strikes against:
- not an AAU member
- doesn't fit the non-sectarian status of other B1G schools
- mediocre football and basketball
- generally lower scores than B1G schools in the annual Director's Cup rating of all interscholastic sports
- would be the smallest in the B1G in student enrollment
- stadiums would be among the Big Ten Conference's smallest

Ticks for:
- that TV market size!!
- football usually makes a bowl game
- US News and World Report ranking of #35 (Illinois is #47) among national universities
- geographically distant from most ACC members and not a longtime ACC member

Colorado (Denver is the 16th largest TV market in the country)
Strikes against:
- mediocre football and basketball
- only 6 men's sports and 9 women's sports

Ticks for:
- AAU member
- again, the TV market size
- geographically distant from most PAC 12 members and not a longtime PAC 12 member

So if it were to come down to fresh TV markets for the Big Ten Network and schools that don't have strong ties to their existing conferences, I'd count them two as viable possibilities.
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As much as I would love to have Colorado join (be nice to have our team play west of Omaha occasionally), CU brings almost nothing from a TV market standpoint. Denver is a Broncos town. Period. Full stop. CU is barely background noise here.
 
#53      
Qwiksilvur
mattcoldagelli said:
I kind of disagree?

There's the basketball play: take Kansas (the points raised previously have merit, although I think some are being a little hyperbolic on academics - they're comparable to Nebraska) - use them to sell North Carolina (or, why not? Duke).

There's the (valid) "this is all about football" approach: just go get Clemson. Sounds crazy? Why? They're a land grant, top-75 school and frankly, wouldn't be leaving a ton behind in terms of ACC football, and would get to play OSU every year. If you get them, you'd have your pick of Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech, or Virginia coming too (assuming UNC wants to stand pat).

The old "hey, you're a lot like us" approach from the last go-around: big land-grants with academic cred - Virginia Tech and Clemson fit this bill. Iowa State kinda technically does, but I don't think that would ever happen.

The "kill the ACC" maneuver: basically take what the SEC is doing to the Big XII and do it to the ACC. Duke/Clemson? UNC/UVA? Florida State/Miami? They all kind of work for you.

Have fun out in the cold, Notre Dame!
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I’m just not sure we go somewhere that isn’t remotely close to the rest of the more northern Big10. Otherwise then yeah FSU is an easy pull based on all the rumors about their terrible finances.

The other issue is the last Big10 commissioner we had was a visionary. Warren has so far proven himself to be incompetent, which isn’t exactly a comforting thought as reallignment kicks up again.
 
#54      
Buck Turgidson
Folks may want to look up Frank the Tank's Slant blog. He is very knowledgeable on conference realignment and has been writing about Big Ten targets for the last several years, especially when Jim Delaney was driving the bus. He put up an update today.

As others have noted, football contracts are the big money source and Texas and Note Dame are the big prizes for the Big Ten (matching our academic profile and driving bigger future TV contracts for football). Texas also expands the conference to a huge TV and recruiting market. Notre Dame is probably never going to join a conference as a full member, so Texas is the biggest realistic target. He also thinks now that Kansas makes some sense for the B1G (they have a big third party TV rights deal driven by basketball). Ga Tech or Virginia would be nice, but how hard would the ACC fight to keep them? Losing them would really put a hurt on that conference.

I don't think the Big Ten sits on the sideline and let's the SEC take Texas without a fight, but I also doubt whether Warren is the guy to make it (or Ga Tech / Virginia) happen. Should be an interesting few months now that the cat is out of the bag.
 
#56      
Centennial Illini
RedRocksIllini said:
As much as I would love to have Colorado join (be nice to have our team play west of Omaha occasionally), CU brings almost nothing from a TV market standpoint. Denver is a Broncos town. Period. Full stop. CU is barely background noise here.
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As a person who spends alot of time in Colorado, I would love them in the conference for selfish reasons but Red Rocks might actually be OVERSTATING Colorado's importance in Denver. You can spend a week in Denver or the Springs and never see a Colorado sweatshirt or bumper sticker. It's like CU is a figment of your imagination.
 
#57      
GrayGhost77
Centennial Illini said:
As a person who spends alot of time in Colorado, I would love them in the conference for selfish reasons but Red Rocks might actually be OVERSTATING Colorado's importance in Denver. You can spend a week in Denver or the Springs and never see a Colorado sweatshirt or bumper sticker. It's like CU is a figment of your imagination.
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Ha ha. As one who lives in the Denver area (Centennial, actually), it's so true. Barely see much CU Buffs stuff at all around here. In fact, I probably see as much Colorado State merch as I do CU. Sad but true. BUT, CU would be a great fit from an academics standpoint (strong research school) and I sure would love to catch Illini games up in Boulder.
 
#58      
NJJ871
Buck Turgidson said:
I don't think the Big Ten sits on the sideline and let's the SEC take Texas without a fight, but I also doubt whether Warren is the guy to make it (or Ga Tech / Virginia) happen. Should be an interesting few months now that the cat is out of the bag.
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Yeah, you have to hope that some combination of Univ. Presidents/AD’s will lead a strategy and response because thinking that Warren will have/execute some brilliant plan is a pipe dream. He’s a worthless empty suit, he should work for the NCAA.
 
#59      
Pikeillinifan
I'd assume they would consult Delaney too. . . or revisit his plans/thoughts from the last realignment.
 
#60      
cfp32
What about the B1G adding Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St and West Virginia.

West: Northwestern, Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Nebraska, Illinois, Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St
Added conf rivalry of Iowa/Iowa St, Nebraska/Kansas & Kansas St

East: Ohio St, Indiana, Penn St, Maryland, Rutgers, Michigan, Michigan St, Purdue, West Virginia
Added conf rivalry of Rutgers/West Virginia, and a new inner division of Indiana/Purdue
 
#61      
pruman91
NJJ871 said:
Yeah, you have to hope that some combination of Univ. Presidents/AD’s will lead a strategy and response because thinking that Warren will have/execute some brilliant plan is a pipe dream. He’s a worthless empty suit, he should work for the NCAA.
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jd09.gif


I think this NJJ dude is on to something here......
 
#62      
illini80
NJJ871 said:
Yeah, you have to hope that some combination of Univ. Presidents/AD’s will lead a strategy and response because thinking that Warren will have/execute some brilliant plan is a pipe dream. He’s a worthless empty suit, he should work for the NCAA.
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Well, they are the ones that hired Warren and vote on NCAA policies.

Snap Out Of It Gordon Ramsay GIF by BBC
 
#64      
The Galloping Ghost
cfp32 said:
What about the B1G adding Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St and West Virginia.

West: Northwestern, Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Nebraska, Illinois, Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St
Added conf rivalry of Iowa/Iowa St, Nebraska/Kansas & Kansas St

East: Ohio St, Indiana, Penn St, Maryland, Rutgers, Michigan, Michigan St, Purdue, West Virginia
Added conf rivalry of Rutgers/West Virginia, and a new inner division of Indiana/Purdue
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Adding those schools would result in a massive net loss for every current member of the conference. You can't just add schools to add them. The pie is only so big and schools aren't going to want a smaller slice. You either add schools that are bringing pie with them to the table or you stick with what you got. And for the B1G, the pie is not only athletic money but ALSO academic research capability and funding.
 
#65      
redwingillini11
If I could build a 16 super-B1G (notice how the G in B1G kinda looks like a 6? ;););)), it would prefer a geographically contiguous big brand state schools. Maryland and Rutgers can take a hike too.

"Original Big Ten"
Illinois
Indiana
Iowa
Michigan
Michigan State
Minnesota
Northwestern
Ohio State
Penn State
Purdue
Wisconsin

"Expansion Era Big Ten"
Nebraska
Missouri
Kansas
Notre Dame
Iowa State or Colorado (I had never thought of CU before, but that could make sense)

If Notre Dame says no, then scrub ISU and CU too and add Texas and Oklahoma. I prefer keeping the Big Ten to Midwest/Great Lakes/Great Plains, but would of course prefer UT and OU over lesser Midwest region schools, like Cincinnati.

Too late for this conference to happen in real life, but that's what I would have done.
 
#67      
The Galloping Ghost
IlliniShelt said:
Okc residential here, all the talking heads are saying this is a done deal
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I'd be shocked if it wasn't, honestly. It'd be foolish to open this pandora's box without having a deal with the SEC ready to go. It's going to be really interested to see what the Texas and Oklahoma legislatures say about this because a lot of schools that forced the construction of the Big 12 are about to be f'ed now.
 
#68      
Joel Goodson
cfp32 said:
What about the B1G adding Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St and West Virginia.
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lol, fat flippin' chance. It was and is all about markets ($).

As to KU, the only way is if Texas and OU bolt from the Big 12. I'd assume they'd get an invite then.
 
#70      
mattcoldagelli
The Galloping Ghost said:
I'd be shocked if it wasn't, honestly. It'd be foolish to open this pandora's box without having a deal with the SEC ready to go. It's going to be really interested to see what the Texas and Oklahoma legislatures say about this because a lot of schools that forced the construction of the Big 12 are about to be f'ed now.
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Yeah, between the leaks, the apparent cessation of the media rights agreement, and the total non-denials from OU and UT...it looks like the powers that be at those schools are making the leap. Are there other players that can stop it? Maybe - @The Galloping Ghost named the likeliest ones.
 
#71      
STLflyinIllini
A few years back when all this re-alignment was going on, there was a rumor that UT and UNC were going to the B1G. I thought that made a lot of sense for all parties involved. Have a hard time seeing UT fitting in the SEC but who knows. If B1G expands I would guess they try to get some teams out east rather than the left over Big 12 teams. Will be interesting to see the aftermath if this is indeed true.
 
#72      
Ransom Stoddard
STLflyinIllini said:
A few years back when all this re-alignment was going on, there was a rumor that UT and UNC were going to the B1G. I thought that made a lot of sense for all parties involved. Have a hard time seeing UT fitting in the SEC but who knows. If B1G expands I would guess they try to get some teams out east rather than the left over Big 12 teams. Will be interesting to see the aftermath if this is indeed true.
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Adding TV markets is perhaps the biggest force driving this. UT adds tons of eyeballs, but outside of GaTech and UNC, who else east of the Mississippi opens up a significant new TV market?
 
#73      
The Galloping Ghost
Just gonna leave this here because Frank the Tank is the best in the game when it comes to distilling the convoluted nature of conference expansion.

frankthetank.org

Red River Realignment: Texas and Oklahoma Talk to the SEC

(Image from Omaha World-Herald) When I first started writing about conference realignment over a decade ago, it was always clear to me which school was the biggest prize for every conference: the U…
frankthetank.org frankthetank.org
 
#74      
RedRocksIllini
STLflyinIllini said:
A few years back when all this re-alignment was going on, there was a rumor that UT and UNC were going to the B1G. I thought that made a lot of sense for all parties involved. Have a hard time seeing UT fitting in the SEC but who knows. If B1G expands I would guess they try to get some teams out east rather than the left over Big 12 teams. Will be interesting to see the aftermath if this is indeed true.
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UT actually makes a lot more sense in the SEC. There are a lot of folks in Texas that long for the UT-A&M rivalry and both Longhorn Network and the SEC Network are more than tightly tied to ESPN.
 
#75      
ugottabjoshinme
GilThorpe said:
this is all driven by football

we get nothing really with any school from the B12 other than Texas.
why would Texas A&M want UT in their league? I doubt they have veto power, but still
I see GTech and Virginia as the most interesting.

Doubt any of this is on the short term horizon
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SEC needs a 3/4 yes vote to add a school. A&M would certainly vote no, but it isn't quote veto power
 
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