Big Ten, ACC, Pac-12 Alliance

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#26      
I've not done the math myself, but I've seen it stated that if the previous years' playoffs were expanded, the B1G would have had the most teams involved. That's actually why the B1G's stance when it comes to playoff expansion is to not limit the number of teams per conference. Obviously, there's plenty to debate when it comes to the wisdom of that decision. Note, I have no idea if that changes with the addition of Oklahoma (Texas, needless to say, isn't bringing any more playoff bids).
Maybe that's the case for last season. Not sure. But clearly the SEC is expanding with a view of capturing that market, and I think if you look at this over a 10 year span, would you really bet on any other conference dominating the playoffs, other than the SEC?

And maybe I'm alone here, but even were the Big Ten to dominate the playoff instead of the SEC, I don't see that as a good thing for college football or college sports generally.
 
#27      
I mean, fine.

but is anybody really looking forward to playing Virginia this year? Haven’t seen a lot of chatter. Probably because a big ten team Neb is on the schedule first week of season.
I mean, for me personally, my parents went to UVA, so I'd love to have those bragging rights. And frankly, as Illinois fans, we just want any game we can actually win. But the alliance isn't about us. It's about providing a better product for the everyday, non-affiliated fan that just wants to watch some sports on a Saturday. Are they more likely to tune into a non-conference game between Illinois and UVA or an SEC team and some tomato can? The alliance is betting it's the former. And the alliance will also be able to provide Clemson vs. Ohio State, etc.
 
#28      
So how would this work with early season basketball tournaments like Maui and Gavitt? Do these conferences say if you invite any SEC team we won't participate? That seems like a stretch.
 
#30      
You're not alone. I think it's foolish not to have a cap of 2 teams per conference in the playoffs.
I think its foolish to have a playoff so small you have to limit conference participation. Hypothetical--tOSU, Wisc, and UIUC are ranked #1, #4, and #5 in the nation (it's a hypothetical, roll with it) with #4 and #5 having very similar records, SOS, etc. An 8 team playoff that excludes the #5 team in the country to instead include the #9 (or lower if another conference has the same scenario) isn't positioned to produce good football or a true champion, but that's why I'd rather have a 16 team or more playoff to begin with.
 
#31      
I think its foolish to have a playoff so small you have to limit conference participation. Hypothetical--tOSU, Wisc, and UIUC are ranked #1, #4, and #5 in the nation (it's a hypothetical, roll with it) with #4 and #5 having very similar records, SOS, etc. An 8 team playoff that excludes the #5 team in the country to instead include the #9 (or lower if another conference has the same scenario) isn't positioned to produce good football or a true champion, but that's why I'd rather have a 16 team or more playoff to begin with.
I get it, but I think that's asking for mega-conferences. And my fear with that has always been that we'll be left out.
 
#32      
I'm still not clear on why you believe this.
As succinctly as I can:

College football traditionally has had a lot going on beyond the season-ending battle for who is the single overall champion, unique among sports in America. So much so obviously that sometimes that "national champion" remained undecided. It created a thicker and weirder sport and culture that in my view is responsible for it having such a huge and passionate following above and beyond any other sport on the planet that isn't the top competitive level in that sport.

This playoff is, in my view, going to centralize all of the interest in the sport toward the handful of games and teams that are playing the games that actually have leverage over the newly all-important quest for the national championship. These games will mostly be played at neutral sites, not on campus, not during the school year, and apparently not even affiliated with the traditional bowls.

This will maximize the dollars flowing out of the wallets of already-committed Alabama and Clemson and Ohio State fans, of which there are many, over the coming seasons. But this is, in my view, going to be a profoundly less interesting product that will first cause all but the handful of elite programs to wither on the vine, and then even those big fanbases start to taper as people who remember the aesthetic meaning of student sections and rivalry trophies and leafy fall Saturdays get older and older, similar to what is happening in baseball.

College football built a behemoth doing things one way, and now they are going to extract the profits from that success doing things in a different way which will leave nothing but an empty, passionless husk behind.

I'm happy to have everyone think I'm wrong and an idiot, but I don't want to be unclear about what I'm saying, does that make it clear for you?
 
#33      
Well, I read the press release, but there was nothing clearly stated aside from trying to get some kind of alliance going and scheduling some more games together whenever schedules allow it.

Seems pretty underwhelming/vague, kind of as if nobody really has a real plan behind that press release that was probably reviewed, changed, tweaked by no less than 50 people.
 
#35      
As succinctly as I can:

College football traditionally has had a lot going on beyond the season-ending battle for who is the single overall champion, unique among sports in America. So much so obviously that sometimes that "national champion" remained undecided. It created a thicker and weirder sport and culture that in my view is responsible for it having such a huge and passionate following above and beyond any other sport on the planet that isn't the top competitive level in that sport.
That's a negative to me, I like knowing that the trophy was one on the field, not handed out by the media. I also don't think that's what creates such a huge following for D1 FB.

This playoff is, in my view, going to centralize all of the interest in the sport toward the handful of games and teams that are playing the games that actually have leverage over the newly all-important quest for the national championship. These games will mostly be played at neutral sites, not on campus, not during the school year, and apparently not even affiliated with the traditional bowls.
I don't understand this paragraph at all, which is probably why I don't follow your premise that playoffs are bad, mmkay? The regular season still happens--in fact it HAS to happen in order to get to the playoffs. Conference games, tailgating, marching bands, cheerleaders, crisp fall weather, none of that goes away. As far as the traditional bowls--align the New Year's bowls with quarter/semi-final playoff games. The traditional conference affiliations for those have already been broken, yet I still watch, because I want to see good football.

This will maximize the dollars flowing out of the wallets of already-committed Alabama and Clemson and Ohio State fans, of which there are many, over the coming seasons. But this is, in my view, going to be a profoundly less interesting product that will first cause all but the handful of elite programs to wither on the vine, and then even those big fanbases start to taper as people who remember the aesthetic meaning of student sections and rivalry trophies and leafy fall Saturdays get older and older, similar to what is happening in baseball.
I don't see how you got here. See my paragraph above, college football is still college football. Each team is still going to play a dozen or so regular season games with rivalry trophies, student sections, etc. Illinois fans will still pack MS, Wisky fans will still flock to Camp Randall, fans will still walk The Grove in Oxford MS because they want to watch the games and enjoy the tradition associated with those games. Your argument makes it seem like our attendance should have been zero during the Beckman and Smith years, yet people still bought season tickets and went to the games, knowing full well the Illini were unlikely to play past the Saturday after Thanksgiving. They still tailgated, went to Grange Grove, the band played, the card section still did their routines, and the cheerleaders still did pushups in the end zones, because Those.Games.Matter.
College football built a behemoth doing things one way, and now they are going to extract the profits from that success doing things in a different way which will leave nothing but an empty, passionless husk behind.
I really think you underestimate football fans. If this were true, the Cleveland Browns would have no fanbase, yet their fanbase is one of the most unique (and delusional) in all of sport. Sports fans are tribal, they attach to their tribe and they stick there, for the most part, through thick and thin. Look at the Browns, the Cubs, the Nets, the Duke football program, and the beloved Fighting Illini.
I'm happy to have everyone think I'm wrong and an idiot, but I don't want to be unclear about what I'm saying, does that make it clear for you?
It's clear, and I appreciate you laying it out. I don't think you're an idiot, but I do thinking you're making some incorrect assumptions about fan bases that cause your overall position to be flawed. I personally believe that minimizing the SEC's leverage (along with that of Texas and Notre Dame individually) is good for CFB, and that the next logical step is a playoff system of at least 16 teams, which IMO goes further to level the playing field, rather than tilting it in favor of the programs we see in the playoffs year after year, ultimately resulting an a B1G team getting whupped by an SEC team. That might still happen, but at least more teams have a shot.
 
#37      
I don't understand this paragraph at all, which is probably why I don't follow your premise that playoffs are bad, mmkay? The regular season still happens--in fact it HAS to happen in order to get to the playoffs. Conference games, tailgating, marching bands, cheerleaders, crisp fall weather, none of that goes away.
Yes but the regular season matters far, far less. It goes from just being the entirety of the sport to being regular season NBA games.

The games still exist, the MEANING of the games gets stripped away because all anyone cares about are the 11 playoff games in December/January.

You say "but everybody is obsessed with NFL Sundays" and I say, "good luck competing with that as a rural, minor league sport"

The quirky, illogical weirdness wasn't a bug in the product, the weirdness WAS the product.

a playoff system of at least 16 teams, which IMO goes further to level the playing field
Any increase in the field is going to accelerate and worsen the already overwhelming and destructive dominance of the top handful of teams. I absolutely guarantee that, there is no doubt whatsoever. No use arguing about predicting the future, it will be borne out by reality in the coming years.
 
#38      
George Orwell couldn't have done better than the term "Autonomy 5 conferences"
 
#39      
As succinctly as I can:

College football traditionally has had a lot going on beyond the season-ending battle for who is the single overall champion, unique among sports in America. So much so obviously that sometimes that "national champion" remained undecided. It created a thicker and weirder sport and culture that in my view is responsible for it having such a huge and passionate following above and beyond any other sport on the planet that isn't the top competitive level in that sport.

This playoff is, in my view, going to centralize all of the interest in the sport toward the handful of games and teams that are playing the games that actually have leverage over the newly all-important quest for the national championship. These games will mostly be played at neutral sites, not on campus, not during the school year, and apparently not even affiliated with the traditional bowls.

This will maximize the dollars flowing out of the wallets of already-committed Alabama and Clemson and Ohio State fans, of which there are many, over the coming seasons. But this is, in my view, going to be a profoundly less interesting product that will first cause all but the handful of elite programs to wither on the vine, and then even those big fanbases start to taper as people who remember the aesthetic meaning of student sections and rivalry trophies and leafy fall Saturdays get older and older, similar to what is happening in baseball.

College football built a behemoth doing things one way, and now they are going to extract the profits from that success doing things in a different way which will leave nothing but an empty, passionless husk behind.

I'm happy to have everyone think I'm wrong and an idiot, but I don't want to be unclear about what I'm saying, does that make it clear for you?

Where do you land on March Madness?
 
#40      
The press release has a lot of words but little concrete. I infer the "Autonomy 5" reference is aimed more at ESPN than the SEC. I suspect that in the future the three conferences may try to schedule more of their challenge games on the conference-owned media pipelines (BIG and PAC networks), rather than license them to ESPN/CBS/whoever, in order to capture more of the revenue. Maybe the one concrete thing I see coming is these three conferences banding together to put in criteria that will limit SEC participation in the expanded football playoff field -- not only does that prevent SEC from claiming a lion's share of the playoff revenue, but it also keeps schools like say, Clemson, USC, Miami, from being the next to jump to the SEC. They will have better chance of making playoff if they stay put.

While the ACC has great brands in MBB, and Clemson/Florida St./Miami/(ND) in football, the conference is going to be really hamstrung by its media deal with ESPN, which it entered into at precisely the worst time, as cord-cutting started to accelerate.
 
#41      
As succinctly as I can:

College football traditionally has had a lot going on beyond the season-ending battle for who is the single overall champion, unique among sports in America. So much so obviously that sometimes that "national champion" remained undecided. It created a thicker and weirder sport and culture that in my view is responsible for it having such a huge and passionate following above and beyond any other sport on the planet that isn't the top competitive level in that sport.

This playoff is, in my view, going to centralize all of the interest in the sport toward the handful of games and teams that are playing the games that actually have leverage over the newly all-important quest for the national championship. These games will mostly be played at neutral sites, not on campus, not during the school year, and apparently not even affiliated with the traditional bowls.

This will maximize the dollars flowing out of the wallets of already-committed Alabama and Clemson and Ohio State fans, of which there are many, over the coming seasons. But this is, in my view, going to be a profoundly less interesting product that will first cause all but the handful of elite programs to wither on the vine, and then even those big fanbases start to taper as people who remember the aesthetic meaning of student sections and rivalry trophies and leafy fall Saturdays get older and older, similar to what is happening in baseball.

College football built a behemoth doing things one way, and now they are going to extract the profits from that success doing things in a different way which will leave nothing but an empty, passionless husk behind.

I'm happy to have everyone think I'm wrong and an idiot, but I don't want to be unclear about what I'm saying, does that make it clear for you?
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#42      
This move is smart. If ESPN covers the SEC it allows CBS NBC FOX to carry the rest. There is really good football in the SEC but there is also bad teams. The SEC will have to be smart with their next move
 
#43      
You say "but everybody is obsessed with NFL Sundays" and I say, "good luck competing with that as a rural, minor league sport"

The quirky, illogical weirdness wasn't a bug in the product, the weirdness WAS the product.
This doesn't pass the sniff test.

Q. What is the most popular spectator sport in the United States?
A. The National Football League.

Q. What is the second most popular spectator sport in the United States?
A. Some so-called rural, minor league sport

Q. What is the most popular high school spectator sport in the United States?
A. Football

The common denominator is football. Weirdness was never the product.
 
#45      
Q. What is the second most popular spectator sport in the United States?
A. Some so-called rural, minor league sport
How do you figure? Tough to compare apples to oranges, but I think both MLB and NBA would be regarded as more popular and lucrative than college football.

But anyway, the point is that if college football becomes regarded as more like high school football than the NFL, it can remain the most popular collegiate spectator sport and nonetheless be essentially destroyed from what it is today.

Where do you land on March Madness?
March Madness is a totally unique and perfect creation that cannot be transported into another context. Just like a college football Saturday.
 
#48      
As succinctly as I can:

College football traditionally has had a lot going on beyond the season-ending battle for who is the single overall champion, unique among sports in America. So much so obviously that sometimes that "national champion" remained undecided. It created a thicker and weirder sport and culture that in my view is responsible for it having such a huge and passionate following above and beyond any other sport on the planet that isn't the top competitive level in that sport.

This playoff is, in my view, going to centralize all of the interest in the sport toward the handful of games and teams that are playing the games that actually have leverage over the newly all-important quest for the national championship. These games will mostly be played at neutral sites, not on campus, not during the school year, and apparently not even affiliated with the traditional bowls.

This will maximize the dollars flowing out of the wallets of already-committed Alabama and Clemson and Ohio State fans, of which there are many, over the coming seasons. But this is, in my view, going to be a profoundly less interesting product that will first cause all but the handful of elite programs to wither on the vine, and then even those big fanbases start to taper as people who remember the aesthetic meaning of student sections and rivalry trophies and leafy fall Saturdays get older and older, similar to what is happening in baseball.

College football built a behemoth doing things one way, and now they are going to extract the profits from that success doing things in a different way which will leave nothing but an empty, passionless husk behind.

I'm happy to have everyone think I'm wrong and an idiot, but I don't want to be unclear about what I'm saying, does that make it clear for you?
“An empty, passionless husk” might be a little over the top but this is a reasonable argument.

How else do you explain the PAC12 six yr slide in attendance from 2014 to 2019? They’ve been left out of the CFP all but 2 years and the last time was in the 2016/17 season.

I don’t want to test my college football engagement level if Illinois is relegated to the MAC with 0 shot at making a relevant post season. Do you?
 
#49      
How do you figure? Tough to compare apples to oranges, but I think both MLB and NBA would be regarded as more popular and lucrative than college football.
You may think so, but if you look at attendance, ratings and opinion polls, you would see otherwise.
2019-20 Report: Amazing College Football Popularity Highlighted by Impressive Ratings and Attendance Data
March Madness is a totally unique and perfect creation that cannot be transported into another context. Just like a college football Saturday.
You missed the point. A big contributor to the charm of March Madness is the underdog upsetting the favorite. The NCAA tournament didn't really become popular until the two headed monster of television and tournament expansion thrusted its death grip on the sport.
 
#50      

My 2 cents.

The alliance seems about as I would expect it. It's reactionary, but necessary. The conferences not named SEC will have vastly more clout if they stand united in the negotiation against the SEC, plus they seem to have a philosophical difference overall on academics and athletics outside football. ESPN can't be trusted with this property for obvious reasons, and they're completely in bed with the SEC. That's fine for SEC games, but not for all of college football. As a non-SEC fan, you see their bias on display constantly, and it's something I avoid tuning into when possible.

We'll see how it plays out, but I like how this is a simple solution that lays the groundwork for a better playoff, and most of the P5 (sorry B12) remaining intact. The one thing I find unsatisfying is the ACC issue. They're ripe for further raiding of their top programs by the SEC, and I'm sure the SEC is working on it. I could see their stupid media rights deal further fracturing the landscape.

Personally I look forward to a 12 team playoff. Just like the big dance, I expect there will be intrigue and many teams having a place on the bubble, adding a ton of interest and debate. All depends on how they roll it out, but I'm warm to the idea.
 
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